<div dir="ltr"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">The OpenStreetMap rule for all time has been "what's on the ground is what we use", in the case of names that would be what's on the road signs.</span><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">I was in Wales last week and saw a mix of road names (I didn't focus on place names, but it should still stand):<br>1)<span> </span><span class="gmail-il">Welsh</span><span> </span>on top line, English below.<br>2) English on top line,<span> </span><span class="gmail-il">Welsh</span><span> </span>below.<br>3)<span> </span><span class="gmail-il">Welsh</span><span> </span>only.</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">It seemed consistent for areas, maybe relating to how old the streets were or politics - I think this is interesting enough.</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">I would tag it the streets always with 2-3 name tags...<br>A) name:cy and name:en used whenever they are present on a sign. Do not transliterate. When we have a complete map, this then provides insight into the areas (where and % of roads) actually have Bilingual names.</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">B) You should additionally add a "name" value. My preference is for the name on the top line. I can see the argument for putting both/all names in, but I think this gets messy as OpenStreetMap doesn't have the concept of a separator.</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">The "name" tag is a used as a fallback (what a German-language map would show, what a<span> </span><span class="gmail-il">Welsh</span>-language map would show if no name:cy, etc). You should think of it as a fallback name, rather than a default name.</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">This can then provide us with insight, what streets have<span> </span><span class="gmail-il">Welsh</span><span> </span>as the primary name (name:cy = name)? <br><br><br>While in Wales, I did do some filming so I could demonstrate how to map bilingual names/places. I've not finished the editing yet, but can share a link when it's published.</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">From England,</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">Gregory.</div><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 25 March 2018 at 23:13, <a href="mailto:ajt1047@gmail.com">ajt1047@gmail.com</a> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ajt1047@gmail.com" target="_blank">ajt1047@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
On 25/03/2018 21:49, Miguel Sevilla-Callejo wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">...
<span class=""><div>Sorry to insist but you will undermine, especially, Welsh
names, for a generic rendering that uses "name" tags. Think
about that.<br>
</div>
</span></div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Can you give a specific example of that? Are you saying that "it's
important to pretend that Welsh names are displayed even where they
aren't used very often" by sticking them on the end of the more
commonly used name? The other way around (using Welsh in "name"
because it is the most used name) presumably wouldn't "undermine ...
Welsh names". It could be that I'm completely misunderstanding what
you're saying here but I really don't follow the argument at all.<span class=""><br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
Of course, for me, it's a must to fill "name:cy" and "name:en"
too.<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br></span>
That's great news - it'll allow maps like
<a class="m_4525024695870515675moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://openstreetmap.cymru/" target="_blank">https://openstreetmap.cymru/</a> (and mine!) to render appropriate names
in appropriate areas.<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote"><span class="">On 25 March 2018 at 20:30, Curon Davies
<span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:curond@gmail.com" target="_blank">curond@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
</span><span class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra"><span>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<ul>
<li>The fundamental problem is that there is
no "name" which is correct. In the medium
term, as long as the name:cy and name:en are
correct then the value of "name" should
become less significant. Then it can be up
to the user to decide if they want to
display English, Welsh or both (and if both
which language taking priority).</li>
</ul>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span>The problem currently, is that display choice
isn't available.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
I don't think that that's actually true - I can think of at least 3
choices right now:<br>
<br>
<ul>
<li>OSM "Standard map" (and a number of others), which just use
the "name" tag:</li>
</ul>
<br>
<a class="m_4525024695870515675moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/51.88362/-5.26565" target="_blank">https://www.openstreetmap.org/<wbr>#map=18/51.88362/-5.26565</a><br>
<br>
<ul>
<li>Openstreetmap.cymru, which uses "name:cy":</li>
</ul>
<br>
<a class="m_4525024695870515675moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://openstreetmap.cymru?h=51.88397494833407&ll=-5.264972448348999&ch=17" target="_blank">https://openstreetmap.cymru?h=<wbr>51.88397494833407&ll=-5.<wbr>264972448348999&ch=17</a><br>
<br>
<ul>
<li>Mine, that show one of "name:cy", "name:en", "name:ga" or
"name" depending on location:</li>
</ul>
<br>
<a class="m_4525024695870515675moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=18&lat=51.883531&lon=-5.264898" target="_blank">http://map.atownsend.org.uk/<wbr>maps/map/map.html#zoom=18&lat=<wbr>51.883531&lon=-5.264898</a><br>
<br>
and of course anyone making their own maps (Garmin etc.) can do
whatever they want.<br>
<br>
Best Regards,<br>
<br>
Andy<br>
<br>
PS: Apologies to Curon if his message wasn't meant for the list -
I'm guessing that it was but that he's actually not subscribed yet
and his reply went both to that and Miguel.<br>
</div>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">Gregory<br><a href="mailto:osm@livingwithdragons.com" target="_blank">osm@livingwithdragons.com</a><br><a href="http://www.livingwithdragons.com" target="_blank">http://www.livingwithdragons.com</a></div>
</div>