<html xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
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--></style></head><body lang=EN-GB link=blue vlink="#954F72"><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>Am I missing something? The 20 mph signs are the same as all speed restrictions signs are they not?</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Jonathan<br>http://bigfatfrog67.me</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0cm'><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:osm@westnordost.de">Tobias Zwick</a><br><b>Sent: </b>01 May 2018 10:45<br><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:talk-gb@openstreetmap.org">talk-gb@openstreetmap.org</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Talk-GB] Implicit speed limits: What to tag in built-up areas?</p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>This tag is not invented, it exists in other countries where slow zones</p><p class=MsoNormal>exist as well.</p><p class=MsoNormal>Also, there *is* something special about it, otherwise the sign would</p><p class=MsoNormal>not be different from a normal maxspeed sign, wouldn't it? (And the</p><p class=MsoNormal>wikipedia article wouldn't exist)</p><p class=MsoNormal>The special thing about it, is that the posted maxspeed is valid for the</p><p class=MsoNormal>whole zone, in other words, until the maxspeed zone is explicitly posted</p><p class=MsoNormal>to be over. No repeater signs on crossroads and not even for adjacent</p><p class=MsoNormal>streets.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Yes, there is a certain similarity with the "normal" 30 mph limit in the</p><p class=MsoNormal>UK, that is why I mentioned "maxspeed:type=GB:zone30" in my original</p><p class=MsoNormal>post. Remember that OSM is a worldwide project, as long as something is</p><p class=MsoNormal>not the same in the whole world, it is not "normal".</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Tobias</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>On 01/05/2018 11:16, Philip Barnes wrote:</p><p class=MsoNormal>> I wouldn't invent a type tag, it's maxspeed = 20 mph because that's what</p><p class=MsoNormal>> the sign says. There is nothing special about these areas.</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> Phil (trigpoint) </p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> On 1 May 2018 09:58:23 BST, Tobias Zwick <osm@westnordost.de> wrote:</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> Regarding the 20mph zones</p><p class=MsoNormal>> (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/30_km/h_zone), analogous to other</p><p class=MsoNormal>> countries where they exist, they would be tagged as maxspeed:type=GB:zone20.</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> On 30/04/2018 20:57, Philip Barnes wrote:</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> Whilst in theory there is an implicit 30mph when street lights are</p><p class=MsoNormal>> present and there are no repeater signs indicating a higher</p><p class=MsoNormal>> limit then</p><p class=MsoNormal>> the speed limit is 30 mph. It has nothing to do with urban, the same</p><p class=MsoNormal>> rule will apply on lit rural roads. These days it is complicated by</p><p class=MsoNormal>> 20mph limits which also have no repeaters.</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> That is the theory, however in over 40 years of driving and even</p><p class=MsoNormal>> longer</p><p class=MsoNormal>> cycling I have never come across an unsigned 30mph limit. It is</p><p class=MsoNormal>> always</p><p class=MsoNormal>> signed as you enter the zone. Whilst it's useful for</p><p class=MsoNormal>> confirmation whilst</p><p class=MsoNormal>> driving, it is not really useful for mapping, you need to survey the</p><p class=MsoNormal>> start points so that it can be split at the appropriate points.</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> Phil (trigpoint)</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> On 30 April 2018 18:41:26 BST, Tobias Zwick <osm@westnordost.de></p><p class=MsoNormal>> wrote:</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> Hi there</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> On tagging implicit speed limits in the United Kingdom, the wiki</p><p class=MsoNormal>> lists</p><p class=MsoNormal>> the following values [1] for "maxspeed:type":</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> GB:nsl_single (=60 mph), GB:nsl_dual (=70 mph) and GB:motorway</p><p class=MsoNormal>> (=70 mph)</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> I understand that the current legislation defines a road with</p><p class=MsoNormal>> road-lighting as a built-up area in which a lower implicit speed</p><p class=MsoNormal>> limit</p><p class=MsoNormal>> of 30 mph applies. There is no mention of it in the wiki, no</p><p class=MsoNormal>> GB:urban,</p><p class=MsoNormal>> GB:lit, GB:zone30 or anything like that, so something should be</p><p class=MsoNormal>> defined</p><p class=MsoNormal>> and documented by (you,) the British OSM community.</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> My question:</p><p class=MsoNormal>> How to tag roads in which such an implicit speed limit for built-up</p><p class=MsoNormal>> areas applies?</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> The question is motivated by an issue report for StreetComplete [2]</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> Cheers</p><p class=MsoNormal>> Tobias</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> [1]</p><p class=MsoNormal>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Speed_limits#Country_code.2Fcategory_conversion_table</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> [2] https://github.com/westnordost/StreetComplete/issues/1037</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> Talk-GB mailing list</p><p class=MsoNormal>> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org</p><p class=MsoNormal>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> -- </p><p class=MsoNormal>> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> -- </p><p class=MsoNormal>> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> _______________________________________________</p><p class=MsoNormal>> Talk-GB mailing list</p><p class=MsoNormal>> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org</p><p class=MsoNormal>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________</p><p class=MsoNormal>Talk-GB mailing list</p><p class=MsoNormal>Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org</p><p class=MsoNormal>https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>