<div dir="ltr">Indeed, Frederik speaks wise words.<div><br></div><div>The role of OSMUK has been to handhold, that is '<span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">support or guide (someone) during a learning process or a period of change'. We've been there to encourage them to work with the community to identify how they might tag, and for them to publish their plans.</span></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Sep 2, 2019 at 2:48 PM Frederik Ramm <<a href="mailto:frederik@remote.org">frederik@remote.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi,<br>
<br>
On 02.09.19 15:30, Jez Nicholson wrote:<br>
> Following on from their talk at the OSMUK AGM, the National Trust have<br>
> now created an official 'organised edit' page for their footpath<br>
> project <a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Organised_Editing/Activities/National_Trust_Paths" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Organised_Editing/Activities/National_Trust_Paths</a><br>
<br>
It sounds like a well thought out plan.<br>
<br>
>From a DWG perspective there's one small warning light that I have in my<br>
head, triggered by terms like "standard" and "validated": It must be<br>
clear to everyone involved that ultimate authority over what gets mapped<br>
and how does not lie with the National Trust, and neither does OSMUK<br>
have a mandate to enter into agreements on behalf of the OSM community<br>
that would determine exactly which ways may be mapped, and what tags to use.<br>
<br>
As long as everyone in this project is clear that it is ultimately local<br>
mappers who get to say what goes in, and that they don't need agreement<br>
from the National Trust or from OSMUK, then I guess all is well.<br>
<br>
At DWG, we frequently have issues where organisations like the NT (or<br>
smaller, local woodland trusts and the like) would like OSM to delete<br>
outright a track that clearly exists in reality, because they say it<br>
"leads to misunderstandings" or "is not official" or "is dangerous" or<br>
something. To which of course the usual reply is "let us tag the correct<br>
situation in OSM, but a track that clearly exists cannot be deleted".<br>
Sometimes they want us to add a "vehicle=no" to a track that has<br>
absolutely no signposts whatsoever locally, meaning that nobody can<br>
verify that vehicles are forbidden and no local motorist would be turned<br>
away - this is also a case where we'd usually say "put up a sign, or put<br>
up with cars".<br>
<br>
Sometimes the goals of these conservation organisations are opposed to<br>
those we have in OSM - they often want to direct human activity in a<br>
certain desired way, whereas we want to depict reality as good as we can<br>
and let humans make their choice based on that.<br>
<br>
A cooperation like the one described here can be beneficial to all sides<br>
if one is aware of exactly where the parties have the same goals, and<br>
where the goals might differ, and establish clear rules for these cases.<br>
<br>
Bye<br>
Frederik<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Frederik Ramm ## eMail <a href="mailto:frederik@remote.org" target="_blank">frederik@remote.org</a> ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33"<br>
<br>
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</blockquote></div>