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<p>Hi Guys</p>
<p>I imported NaPTAN data for my local area (Chorley) some months
ago. Took the data for Lancashire and filtered on Town:Chorley.
Some of the stops were excluded because the data had not been
correctly input by reason of no entry, misspelt, wrong town
entered.</p>
<p>Using the JOSM:Conflate tool enabled me to identify existing
stops and merge/manipulate the data - hard work with some mistakes
which I am now correcting by field survey - I know the area well
so I tend to be able to spot errors. Conflate allows the setting
of distance to match nodes - I started at 10 meters to get the
close matches then 50 metres, several iteration through the data.<br>
</p>
<p>I would encourage you to add the fields naptan:ATCOCode &
naptan:NaptanCode as they are useful references when using
timetable software - all my local bus stops include NaptanCode for
text alerts for buses.</p>
<p>Bus stop types - most are MKD which I think translates as marked
on the ground, but CUS are the Custom and practice stops which
Stuart refers. As they are not physical should they be in OSM ?
Answering my own question - I think so because it is additional
data and very useful for map users, but I would now put in the
BusStopType field. Similar for HAR hail and ride. <br>
</p>
<p>Have a look at putting nodes in - helps to complete the map.</p>
<p>I found Latitude and Longitude locations to be accurate within 10
yards or so, more accurate than the previously entered bus stops -
I surveyed / used Mapillary to confirm.</p>
<p>Be critical about the data and your process - it helps accuracy
but don't be afraid.</p>
<p>Good mapping</p>
<p>Regards</p>
<p>Tony Shield (TonyS999)<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 18/01/2020 12:16, Stuart Reynolds
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:6AC69BD9-BDA8-4156-A67C-9829849C6F84@travelinesoutheast.org.uk">
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Hi Cj,
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">What you have got there is Southern Vectis’s link to
a subset of the current NaPTAN data. Please note, though, that
Southern Vectis are not responsible for this data - that is
maintained by Isle of Wight Council.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">NaPTAN data is always available by local authority,
or for the entire country, from the official source. You don’t
need to have a login, and instructions can be found at <a
href="http://naptan.app.dft.gov.uk/DataRequest/help" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">http://naptan.app.dft.gov.uk/DataRequest/help</a> on
how to download individual areas. Essentially, you will need the
Atcoprefix to form the URL and you can get this most easily by
following the “last submissions” link contained within that
page.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">But all this comes with a health warning! </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">NaPTAN data from the official source will <i
class="">generally</i> be more up to date than what has been
imported into OSM some years ago. But I know, from when I
proposed a mechanical edits few years ago, that many mappers
have surveyed their local stops and would be unhappy with it
being updated without a further survey by what they regard as an
inferior source, particularly if is not well maintained.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Be aware of “Custom and practice” stops in NaPTAN
which are unmarked. Buses stop there, but there isn’t something
that you can see on the ground that you can map, necessarily.
Hail and Ride stops are even worse, because they are virtual
stops intended to give something that a scheduling system can
hang a time on rather than an accurate representation of where a
bus stops. You can identify all of these by BusStopType in the
data.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Common errors in the official NaPTAN data set may be
missing stops, or the inclusion of stops that are no longer in
use. Some areas remove stops when they are no longer served,
even though the infrastructure is still in place on the ground
(wrong, in my opinion, but there you go). You may also find
stops that are not precisely where you expect them to be, and
they may also not have the name that is on the stop flag on the
ground.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">That last one is a point worth dwelling on. NaPTAN
is intended to be granular in its data. That means that the
street that a stop is on should go into the “streetname” field,
and a short name should go into the “commonname” field. Our
advice to database administrators is that where there isn’t a
prominent landmark (bus station, pub, etc) then this is most
suited to a nearby side road. That way stops along a long road
can have different names, which is essential in a journey
planner or timetable. On the ground, though, many authorities
will put composite names on the flags, and often the other way
round if they consider the main road to be more important. And
they then differ on occasion from what the operator wants to
call the stop (although operators tend to focus on just the
timetabled points). Oh, and some areas misuse the fields. In
Sheffield (for good historic reasons, so I don’t want to pick on
them unduly) you will find that the commonname is simply the
stop letter e.g. CS1 which should properly be in the Indicator
field, and the common name (which should be “Century Square”) is
only found by looking at the stop area name.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">All this just goes to highlight that you will need
to reflect carefully on what the fields that you are updating in
OSM should be before making the changes - although I agree that
in many places the data in OSM is way out of date and
desperately needs updating.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
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Regards,</div>
<div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
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none;">
Stuart Reynolds</div>
<div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
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auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration:
none;">
for traveline south east and anglia</div>
</div>
<br class="">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On 18 Jan 2020, at 11:18, Cj Malone via
Talk-GB <<a href="mailto:talk-gb@openstreetmap.org"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">talk-gb@openstreetmap.org</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div class="">Hello,<br class="">
<br class="">
I've recently found an open data set with more accurate
bus stop names<br class="">
than OSM. Based on my limited survey of differences in
OSM data and<br class="">
this data, theirs has been more accurate. Not really
surprising, since<br class="">
it's there network, and most of the OSM data hasn't been
updated since<br class="">
the naptan import nearly a decade ago.<br class="">
<br class="">
I intent to start updating OSM based on this data. The
legal mailing<br class="">
list has OK'ed this as it's OGLv3.<br class="">
<br class="">
I won't be importing any nodes, but I do intend for it
to be "machine<br class="">
assisted". I will create a report similar to<br class="">
<a href="https://gregrs.dev.openstreetmap.org/fhrs/"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://gregrs.dev.openstreetmap.org/fhrs/</a>
where I will then go through<br class="">
on a node by node basis and decide if the node should be
updated. Any<br class="">
tag I edit I will add source:name=Southern Vectis, and
leave the<br class="">
naptan:CommonName untouched.<br class="">
<br class="">
While I do this I could also upgrade from
highway=bus_stop to<br class="">
public_transport=platform, bus=yes. Keeping the legacy
tags as the wiki<br class="">
recommends.<br class="">
<br class="">
I will be using this data set <a
href="https://www.islandbuses.info/open-data" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">
https://www.islandbuses.info/open-data</a><br class="">
the same data set is available for more regions, but at
the moment I don't intent to use them, a local mapper
would be better suited.
<a
href="https://www.discoverpassenger.com/2019/06/25/open-data-portals-go-"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">
https://www.discoverpassenger.com/2019/06/25/open-data-portals-go-</a><br
class="">
ahead-group/<br class="">
<br class="">
Any comments?<br class="">
<br class="">
Thanks<br class="">
Cj<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
_______________________________________________<br
class="">
Talk-GB mailing list<br class="">
<a href="mailto:Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org</a><br
class="">
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb</a><br
class="">
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
</div>
<br>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Talk-GB mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org">Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org</a>
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