<div dir="ltr"><div>Funnily enough this long-standing issue came up at our pub meeting last month. Although my reaction has always been to let sleeping dogs lie, this was clearly not the consensus.</div><div><br></div><div>I've sent a message to University of Cambridge Information Services who run the <a href="http://map.cam.ac.uk">map.cam.ac.uk</a> site which consumes the OSM data, to warn them that a change is impending. It's probably worth holding off for a week or so to allow them to assess any impact on their map. Incidentally, knowing a specific contact point would help as university IT departments can be big beasts these days. It does show that having a good contact point is always a good idea for directed edits when data is in use.</div><div><br></div><div>As others have said there is a lot of inconsistency: particular with former houses taken into University or College ownership which sometimes get building=house/semi and other times building=university. There are other college buildings of this type which are not hit by amenity=university at all.</div><div><br></div><div>Other general points I noticed relating to inconsistency/issues (largely arising because Cambridge got mapped earlier than many places or it just has a lot of things which are otherwise rare):<br></div><ul><li>Theological Colleges are loosely associated with the university, and are equally loosely amenity=university in their own right. I don't know if we have a regular way of tagging non-degree awarding religious training centres. These are something of an Oxbridge speciality. I see the London Institute of Theology is <a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/524375396">tagged</a> as a college. Years ago I mapped Coleg Trefecca as a conference centre, but used old_ tags to indicate it's historical role as a college training people for the ministry. Fortunately some of the <a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/53.18591/-3.02706">odder places</a> of former times have similarly changed their roles.</li><li>Sports facilities (especially isolated playing fields and boathouses) are just tagged with a ref and operator. Pavilions are often tagged building=university, as is the sports centre.</li><li>Cambridge colleges are independent corporations in their own right, so probably should have separate amenity=university relations (although the world is unlikely to end if not). They mostly form discrete campuses. Isolated parts are named separately so just replacing these with a relation doesn't work. North Court, Emma is one such example. There are similarly very well known parts of the university with their own widely used names: Downing Site, New Museums, West Cambridge etc. This is true of most universities now that many are multi-campus. I don't think we have a good approach to these: roles in relations, campus_name … are all possibilities. (This also applies to schools now that one academy can take over another).</li><li>There's plenty of (non-public accessible) student accommodation which is not mapped as such. I presume this is intentional. Examples the Trinity staircase above the bike shop on Jesus Lane, most of Lower Park St (Jesus), and Portugal Place, </li><li> Multiple buildings mapped as <a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/147487988">one</a>. There are probably others, but this one I know. The larger part of the building is the former <a href="https://britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/101265198-county-hall-cambridge#.Xjr8Fm52u01">Cambridgeshire County Hall</a>, built around 1910 and Grade II listed, the S part is a <a href="https://britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/101332167-christs-college-x-staircase-cambridge-market-ward#.Xjr7yG52u00">17th century house</a> (formerly 'X' staircase), also Grade II. The two buildings form a single unit of student accommodation which presumably reflects the mapping.</li></ul><div>Cheers,</div><div><br></div><div>Jerry</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Tue, 4 Feb 2020 at 15:15, Dave F via Talk-GB <<a href="mailto:talk-gb@openstreetmap.org">talk-gb@openstreetmap.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid">On 04/02/2020 14:28, Dan S wrote:<br>
> Hi Dave,<br>
><br>
> I agree with what you suggest. Can we be a bit precise though about<br>
> what you propose? You're proposing to remove amenity=university from<br>
> building=university in Cambridge, and make no other tagging changes?<br>
<br>
That's correct. I'm going to load the 1050 return by this overpass query <br>
into JOSM:<br>
[bbox:{{bbox}}];<br>
nwr[amenity=university][building=university];<br>
out meta geom;<br>
<br>
plus another 7 which are still tagged as building=yes.<br>
<br>
> (Ironically, the current tagging makes it hard for me to search to see<br>
> if there's a "proper" amenity=university in there somewhere, e.g. as a<br>
> relation or area covering a large swathe of them.)<br>
<br>
There isn't, I'm afraid.. it's a right hotchpotch<br>
<br>
<a href="https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/QnH" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/QnH</a><br>
<br>
These are the remaining 117 amenity=university which will need to be <br>
rectified at a later date..<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
DaveF<br>
> Op di 4 feb. 2020 om 14:15 schreef Dave F via Talk-GB<br>
> <<a href="mailto:talk-gb@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">talk-gb@openstreetmap.org</a>>:<br>
>> Hi<br>
>> There was a discussion 5 years ago. There may have been others.<br>
>> <a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2015-May/017455.html" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2015-May/017455.html</a><br>
>><br>
>> Many amenity=university tags were added unnecessarily to building=yes<br>
>> A contributor had converted these to building=university, in accordance<br>
>> with the wiki. <a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:building%3Duniversity" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:building%3Duniversity</a><br>
>><br>
>> <a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/40649767" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/40649767</a><br>
>> This allows the removal of the amenity tags without loss of data.<br>
>><br>
>> The user who created his disparate tagging schema has had plenty of time<br>
>> to rectify. I think this should be performed now.<br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Talk-GB mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
>> <a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb</a><br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Talk-GB mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb</a><br>
</blockquote></div>