<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
  </head>
  <body>
    <p>Thanks Jass - I was not aware of this excellent piece of work by
      Greg - do we know if the proposals "Possible import" were followed
      through?</p>
    <p>I wonder if OS have other data for the 'benchmarks i.e. more
      precise than the data currently available.<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 23/08/2020 15:26, Jass Kurn wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAON5zANbPdsHF1qCGtZ8pXS6tekBkfkUJHbprvCk3--ivR3Ftw@mail.gmail.com">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div dir="ltr">Gregrs has provided converted data for trig points,
        with the data obtained from a FOI request. They created a page
        to explain the process, and made available the converted data as
        a gpx file <a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Ordnance_Survey_triangulation_stations"
          moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Ordnance_Survey_triangulation_stations</a> .<br>
        <br>
        Jass<br>
      </div>
      <br>
      <div class="gmail_quote">
        <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, 23 Aug 2020 at 15:13,
          Nick <<a href="mailto:nick@foresters.org"
            moz-do-not-send="true">nick@foresters.org</a>> wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
          0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
          <div>
            <p>My thinking was that most people surveying would not use
              accurate and precise systems such as differential GPS
              and/or RTK. So if these systems were used to accurately
              and precisely locate distinct local markers (i.e. trig
              points, benchmarks etc.) then local surveys could
              potentially use these to refine/check their own surveys.
              This approach would still be based on community input but
              could be used as an approach to education (e.g. local
              schools involved) as to how surveying works in practice.<br>
            </p>
            <div>On 23/08/2020 12:27, SK53 wrote:<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote type="cite">
              <div dir="ltr">
                <div>This approach has been advocated in other European
                  countries, and the Spanish community imported all the
                  points of the national geodesic network (e.g., for <a
href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/6041229#map=7/39.254/-6.124"
                    target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Extremadura</a>).
                  They more or less violate the idea of OSM as something
                  which is community contributed (IIRC each point has
                  "DO NOT MOVE") and often interfere with objects which
                  do need mapping (churches are a particular point).
                  It's not clear that this import has assisted improved
                  accuracy of mapping in Spain.<br>
                </div>
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div>Many trig pillars are now way out of alignment and
                  mainly of interest as an artefact. Even benchmarks
                  might not have much relevance as OS surveying mainly
                  uses differential GPS with reference to their own base
                  network (<a
href="https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/business-government/tools-support/os-net/positioning"
                    target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">OS Net</a>).
                  (From the OS website "Ordnance Survey (OS) benchmarks
                  and their heights haven't been regularly maintained
                  for over 40 years.").</div>
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div>OS Net is effectively proprietary, there are a
                  limited number of open base stations for differential
                  GPS in the UK. I do believe differential GPS (RTK) has
                  a role to play in OSM surveying, although for specific
                  purposes rather than generic improvement of feature
                  alignment.</div>
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div>Regards,</div>
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div>Jerry<br>
                </div>
              </div>
              <br>
              <div class="gmail_quote">
                <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, 23 Aug 2020 at
                  10:05, Nick <<a href="mailto:nick@foresters.org"
                    target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">nick@foresters.org</a>>
                  wrote:<br>
                </div>
                <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
                  0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                  rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">I have been looking
                  at what is recorded under this tag in my area. I see <br>
                  that there aren't that many and those that are on OSM
                  refer to trig <br>
                  points (see also <a href="http://trigpointing.uk/"
                    rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
                    moz-do-not-send="true">http://trigpointing.uk/</a>).
                  My thinking is that if these <br>
                  are accurate and precisely marked on OSM then perhaps
                  they could be used <br>
                  for resolving issue such as aerial imagery offsets.<br>
                  <br>
                  I therefore wondered if it was worth using other data
                  under this tag - <br>
                  specifically benchmarks (<a
                    href="https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/benchmarks/"
                    rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
                    moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/benchmarks/</a>)
                  <br>
                  as there are huge numbers in the UK. If these were
                  marked on OSM and <br>
                  their accuracy and precision verified (OS open data is
                  to the nearest <br>
                  10m square and transforming that adds errors), they
                  could be helpful in <br>
                  local surveys where they are less than accurate but
                  also for ensuring <br>
                  that moving all nodes in an area is valid (not just to
                  match aerial <br>
                  imagery). A possible linked organisation with data is
                  <br>
                  <a href="https://www.bench-marks.org.uk/"
                    rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
                    moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.bench-marks.org.uk/</a><br>
                  <br>
                  Incidentally, the benchmarks can be helpful if you
                  need to align <br>
                  historical maps which have benchmarks shown.<br>
                  <br>
                  Any thoughts?<br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  _______________________________________________<br>
                  Talk-GB mailing list<br>
                  <a href="mailto:Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org"
                    target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
                  <a
                    href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb"
                    rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
                    moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb</a><br>
                </blockquote>
              </div>
            </blockquote>
          </div>
          _______________________________________________<br>
          Talk-GB mailing list<br>
          <a href="mailto:Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank"
            moz-do-not-send="true">Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
          <a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb"
            rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb</a><br>
        </blockquote>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Talk-GB mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org">Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
  </body>
</html>