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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/12/2020 09:59, Nick Whitelegg via
Talk-GB wrote:<br>
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In the early stages I think we could run it on cheap hosting
hardware, like most projects in the OSM ecosystem. I suspect for
a while usage would be light and limited to those in the OSM
community. I use Hetzner for my hosting (OpenTrailView, Hikar,
MapThePaths) - I pay around EUR 19/month but that is for a
larger system that has to deal with the whole of Europe rather
than just the UK.</div>
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<a href="https://www.hetzner.com/cloud?country=gb"
id="LPlnk609046" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.hetzner.com/cloud?country=gb</a></div>
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The second-lowest spec of these, the CPX11 is giving you 2GB RAM
and 40GB disc space for EUR 4.19 a month. OK we'd need more than
that long term, but I suspect that would get us going in the
early stages.</div>
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<p>That'll depending on what you want the server to do, I think.
For an OSM Carto Map style with automatic updates and reasonable
performance you'll probably need > 6Gb memory for the whole of
the UK these days. Maybe a CX31 at €11 per month (i.e. about the
price of a couple of pints and a "substantial" pork pie for those
in tier 2)? <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://map.atownsend.org.uk">https://map.atownsend.org.uk</a> is a CX41 I believe, and
renders Mapnik / Carto CSS map tiles that cover UK and Ireland.
It could probably include another "medium sized OSM country" in
the same map style as well without too many problems.<br>
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<p>On the question of "could we show feature X" (e.g. "cycleways
with foot=yes" different to "cycleways with foot=no) the answer is
technically yes, but you need to decide which subset of features
you want to show because there simply aren't enough ways of
visually distinguishing things that users can actually tell apart,
especially when combined with other features.</p>
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<p>As an example, have a look at the legend at
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=16&lat=-24.98988&lon=135.10862">https://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=16&lat=-24.98988&lon=135.10862</a>
. That shows:</p>
<ul>
<li>designation (public footpath / bridleway / retricted byway /
BOAT / UCR / none)</li>
<li>width - either "narrow" (not wide enough for a 4 wheeled
vehicle) or "wide" (wide enough)</li>
<li>trail_visibility</li>
<li>some surface information (unclassified unpaved roads rendered
differently to paved roads)</li>
<li>tunnel yes/no</li>
<li>long ford yes/no</li>
<li>bridge yes/no</li>
<li>embankment yes/no</li>
<li>long distance foot / bicycle / horse riding routes</li>
<li>access=destination and =private viewed from a pedestrian
perspective</li>
</ul>
<p>and of course combinations of the above.</p>
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</p>
<p>It does not show:</p>
<ul>
<li>explicit OSM keys (e.g. footway/cycleway/path/bridleway)</li>
<li>explicit OSM access tags (e.g. "foot=yes or no on a cycleway")</li>
<li>undesignated cycleways differently from other undesignated
paths</li>
</ul>
<p>In order to one of those (for example just "displaying cycleways
as cycleways") you'd need to remove something else that's already
rendered, otherwise users won't be able to tell features apart.</p>
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<p>Assuming that people are planning to go down the mod_tile /
Mapnik / Carto CSS route, I'd suggest:</p>
<ol>
<li>decide what zoom levels you want, which will influence exactly
which software to use <br>
</li>
<li>deciding where to start from (e.g OSM's Standard style, mine,
or a different one altogether)</li>
<li>deciding exactly what you want to change</li>
<li>make those changes, <br>
</li>
<li>see what "unintended consequences" have occurred</li>
<li>fix those and iterate round until happy</li>
</ol>
<p>Assuming you can deal a couple of hours overnight downtime while
the database reloads I'd suggest doing most of the "deciding what
to show as different things" work in lua and the "deciding what to
show it as" in Carto CSS. It's much easier to understand and to
maintain.<br>
</p>
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<p>With regard to the "boring bit" (scripts to load databases, keep
databases up to date etc.) most of the stuff used by
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://map.atownsend.org.uk">https://map.atownsend.org.uk</a> is public (links to everything are at
the top of the changelog). Much of the rest (e.g. automatic https
certificate renewal) is standard and is documented in 1000s of
other places around the internet. If anyone wants any help or
advice with any of the above please just ask.</p>
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</p>
<p>There may be a temptation to think "the end goal is a phone app ,
so actually we probably want to look at $some_other_technology
instead". I would strongly suggest following a well-trodden path
first while so that the things that are new to whoever is doing
this are have well-documented solutions. I haven't yet found a
vector tile stack that is (a) well documented and (b) free of
vendor lock-in that could go on
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://switch2osm.org/serving-tiles/">https://switch2osm.org/serving-tiles/</a> yet, for example. Once
whoever is doing this is familiar with things, trying something a
bit more off-the-wall will be more likely to work without
everything breaking.<br>
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<p>The biggest requirement is for someone to actually commit to
doing the work to set something up - nothing will happen without
this. If OSM UK are happy to fund a server, and for it to fit in
their DNS somewhere then that's one less expense to worry about -
but someone still needs to do the work.</p>
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<p>Best Regards,</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Andy</p>
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