<html><head></head><body style="zoom: 0%;"><div dir="auto">I've had one of those in Bristol, behind 30s terraces. They joined up between a few streets except where overgrown of otherwise blocked. Wide enough to drive down, maybe to drive past a parked car, access to garages. Certainly called an alley locally. "Track" would describe the surface quite well, if not the use or layout. <br><br></div>
<div dir="auto">But "alley" can also refer to something too narrow to drive down - a.k.a. "ginnel" up north<br><br></div>
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<div class="gmail_quote" >On 12 Feb 2021, at 10:05, Edward Catmur via Talk-GB <<a href="mailto:talk-gb@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">talk-gb@openstreetmap.org</a>> wrote:<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div dir="ltr">They're all over the south east; I think they were popular during the suburban boom of the 1930s. Typically (at least in south London) they're rather less well manicured than your example (which has an engineered surface, a defined verge, and even street lighting). An example that I would definitely describe as an alley (and has been tagged highway=service service=alley) is
<a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/61299961">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/61299961</a> (visual: <a href="https://www.bing.com/maps?cp=51.37357~-0.243965&lvl=17&dir=358.246&style=x&v=2&sV=1">https://www.bing.com/maps?cp=51.37357~-0.243965&lvl=17&dir=358.246&style=x&v=2&sV=1</a>) - just wide enough for 1 car, with a solid but unsealed surface, giving access to back gardens. In some other parts of London they've been mapped as highway=track e.g.
<a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/525334642">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/525334642</a> which I don't feel is quite correct.<div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Feb 12, 2021 at 9:18 AM Nick Whitelegg via Talk-GB <<a href="mailto:talk-gb@openstreetmap.org">talk-gb@openstreetmap.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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Indeed - 'Alley' I think is one of those words with different UK and US usage.</div>
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In the UK I take it to mean a narrow concrete path between buildings.</div>
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In the US I take it to mean what is under discussion here: a service road that cuts through a block, with houses backing onto it from both sides, and running parallel to streets either side. There are actually a few examples of these in the UK, this springs
to mind (between Ludlow Road and Manor Road North), I would use highway=service for this:</div>
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<div id="gmail-m_-3700283276299911535divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Stephen Colebourne <<a href="mailto:scolebourne@joda.org" target="_blank">scolebourne@joda.org</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> 12 February 2021 08:17<br>
<b>To:</b> Talk Gb <<a href="mailto:talk-gb@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">talk-gb@openstreetmap.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Talk-GB] Hanway Street - London - highway=residential or highway=service</font>
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<div>None of those four examples look like alleys to me. But this may be a<br>
cultural issue - when I've visited the US I've seen streets called<br>
alleys that are not dissimilar:<br>
<a href="https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@42.3498528,-71.0882683,3a,75y,60.23h,70.78t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sGvRaWcdOwGdQ02UHEt0Yug!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DGvRaWcdOwGdQ02UHEt0Yug%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D256.35754%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656" target="_blank">https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@42.3498528,-71.0882683,3a,75y,60.23h,70.78t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sGvRaWcdOwGdQ02UHEt0Yug!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DGvRaWcdOwGdQ02UHEt0Yug%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D256.35754%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656</a><br>
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Stephen<br>
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On Fri, 12 Feb 2021 at 06:14, Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-GB<br>
<<a href="mailto:talk-gb@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">talk-gb@openstreetmap.org</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> <a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:service%3Dalley" target="_blank">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:service%3Dalley</a> has ongoing topic of what<br>
> qualifies as highway=residential and what qualifies as highway=service service=alley<br>
><br>
> Hanway Street was given as highway=service example, then removed as an example<br>
> - with following photo <a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Hanway_Street_-_London.JPG" target="_blank">
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Hanway_Street_-_London.JPG</a><br>
><br>
> To me it looks like a narrow highway=residential but right now it is mapped as<br>
> highway=service, see <a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/233334347" target="_blank">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/233334347</a><br>
> (and was mapped as such for basically all its existence).<br>
><br>
> Photo looks like something that I would definitely consider as narrow highway=residential,<br>
> and has tagged such roads in my city as highway=residential + lanes=1<br>
><br>
> What is your opinion? Is it highway=service service=alley or narrow highway=residential?<br>
> Should it be changed in OSM?<br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
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