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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi Paul,</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">I see where you're coming from, but the
ones I know of were definitely in private (though mysterious)
ownership when I lived there. Also:</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">- They're not shown as byways or
anything else on RoWmaps. I would have thought this is how a
PRoW over private land should show up.<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">- They're not on the council's List of
Streets (which of course includes plenty of access roads, service
roads, cyclepaths and footpaths and only exists as a badly
formatted pdf).</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"> - OS maps are unhelpful (recent on
paper, or the old ones via NLS) - the alleys exist on the large
scale maps, which don't show rights of way, but are omitted on the
25K series that would the RoW status.<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">The landowners either don't know or
don't care about them, and surely they'd be the most likely people
to mark them as private otherwise. Perhaps the residents of the
houses at the entrances could put up signs, but the land registry
stuff I saw was clear that the alleys weren't included in the plot
for each house (matched by the cadastral parcels on OSM)<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">(also my current road was unadopted but
public for about 15 years after it was built, but paved by Wimpey
as soon as the houses were up)<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Chris</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 20/12/2021 16:08, Paul Berry wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAOQ3Vgm_RVXU7G_TKooHjmvxbNhdYbeeX5Ttf1SOQG7tYOOZzQ@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</blockquote>
Hi Chris,
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAOQ3Vgm_RVXU7G_TKooHjmvxbNhdYbeeX5Ttf1SOQG7tYOOZzQ@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Not my view nor my experience though I'm sure it differs by
area. A road that's unadopted does not imply it's not a public
right of way. Plenty of them are private roads, as you'd
expect, but a surprising number constitute rights of way. For
"unadopted," especially on a road name sign, read "unpaved"
rather than "private" - people will absolutely sign a private
road as such.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As always, there's sometimes a complicated and obscure
dance between landowner, operator, surface and access. Assume
nothing.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div><i>Paul</i></div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, 20 Dec 2021 at 13:23,
Chris Hodges <<a href="mailto:chris@c-hodges.co.uk"
moz-do-not-send="true">chris@c-hodges.co.uk</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div>When I lived somewhere with one of these (Filton,
Bristol), it was clearly unadopted - we were suppose to
pay ground rent for the use, but the relevant descendant
of the last-named landowner didn't show any interest and
what little maintenance took placewas done by the
adjoining homeowners, so they did get overgrown in places.
There were a few interlinked alleys so cutting through was
possible; some have been gated to prevent this and the
potholes acted as a deterrent to through traffic. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>That would seem to imply "private". Currently the ones
round there are highway=track, access=yes. When we were
selling, the land registry had no helpful records
available. So it's a bit of a mess. Even finding out who
would be responsible for putting up a "private" sign would
be hard enough</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Chris<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>On 20/12/2021 12:23, Adam Snape wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="auto">
<div><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, 20 Dec
2021, 12:13 David Woolley, <<a
href="mailto:forums@david-woolley.me.uk"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">forums@david-woolley.me.uk</a>>
wrote:</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> One problem
I've found on that is people who religiously apply
the on <br>
the ground rule and won't accept that it is common
sense that service <br>
roads behind rows of houses are private, and they
don't need to be <br>
signposted as private to be assumed private.<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Oh, that one depends on where you live
and the type of access road. In Lancashire the vast
majority of such roads are back streets behind
terraced houses (Coronation Street style) and the vast
majority of those are adopted public highways which
the public have a right to use as they do any other
highway.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">In some areas where there has been
antisocial behaviour their access has subsequently
been restricted by Gating Orders but in the absence of
indication on the ground, my default assumption
wouldn't be that access=private.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Kind regards,</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Adam</div>
<div dir="auto">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> </blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
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