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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Gruff,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">In addition to the sac_scale tag, you may wish to add a suitable value for the hazard tag:
<a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:hazard">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:hazard</a> There are also a bunch of undocumented values which might work for you:
<a href="https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/?key=hazard#values">https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/?key=hazard#values</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">These secondary tags won’t stop the path being rendered on the “standard” OSM page and possibly not in Strava either but at least the data is recorded if routers/renderers wanted to pay attention
to it. (You could contact Strava and ask them not to render it.)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Also, a bit of a wider discussion, this has cropped up in the past but with no resolution. See:
<a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:highway%3Dpath#highway.3Dpath_is_defined_too_broadly_and_it_is_now_resulting_in_unnecessary_Search_and_Rescue_calls">
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:highway%3Dpath#highway.3Dpath_is_defined_too_broadly_and_it_is_now_resulting_in_unnecessary_Search_and_Rescue_calls</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> Nick Whitelegg via Talk-GB <talk-gb@openstreetmap.org>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 05 February 2022 15:48<br>
<b>To:</b> Talk-GB <talk-gb@openstreetmap.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Talk-GB] Advice please: Goat tracks in mountain areas<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">I don't know this path but if it's visible on the ground throughout, it should be mapped. I tend to use width=narrow for these sorts of paths which are very vague, and agree that sac_scale=difficult_mountain_hiking
would indicate that it is not for casual hikers.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">If on the other hand it disappears in the middle, don't map that bit.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">bicycle=no and horse=no would mean that it is illegal for bikes and horses to use the path. I'm not sure what the rights are here, so not sure whether these should be used or not.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Nick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:black">From:</span></b><span style="color:black"> Philip Barnes <<a href="mailto:phil@trigpoint.me.uk">phil@trigpoint.me.uk</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> 05 February 2022 15:37<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:talk-gb@openstreetmap.org">talk-gb@openstreetmap.org</a> <<a href="mailto:talk-gb@openstreetmap.org">talk-gb@openstreetmap.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Talk-GB] Advice please: Goat tracks in mountain areas</span>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Sat, 2022-02-05 at 15:04 +0000, David Woolley wrote:<br>
> On 05/02/2022 14:26, Gruff Owen wrote:<br>
> > <br>
> > It has been tagged as:<br>
> > bicycle:no<br>
> > highway:path<br>
> > horse:no<br>
> > <br>
> <br>
> What would initially concern me is that bicycle=no and horse=no<br>
> probably <br>
> represent the mapper's view of its suitability, and are therefore<br>
> very <br>
> subjective, which is wrong.<br>
> <br>
> Not mapping it would be wrong. The correct way is to provide <br>
> attributes, e.g tracktype=Grade 5; surface=ground; width=70cm; <br>
> smoothness=horrible; sac_scale=difficult_mountain_hiking, that allow<br>
> a <br>
> router to make its own judgements (although some of these could also<br>
> be <br>
> considered too subjective). I'm not sure though, to what extent<br>
> routers <br>
> actually look for such contraindications, but there is a principle<br>
> that <br>
> you do not tag for the renderer, which means it is the router's job<br>
> to <br>
> assess suitability and one must not try to influence it by<br>
> misdescriptions.<br>
> <br>
> Pyg Trail, to which this path is attached, is classified as <br>
> sac_scale=mountain_hiking, in OSM, which is the second least onerous.<br>
> The description for sac_scale says that paper maps often do not<br>
> include <br>
> paths with the most onerous values.<br>
> <br>
> Total omission doesn't work, if the feature is visible, because<br>
> people <br>
> will, eventually, remap it.<br>
> <br>
This sounds a good approach, although in my experience goat or sheep<br>
tracks end up with a width more like a sunken 10cm path on a steep<br>
slope where it becomes difficult to get one boot in front of the other.<br>
<br>
Could be worth a changeset comment pointing out the problems with<br>
mapping this type of path without careful tagging and determine<br>
motivation/sources used.<br>
<br>
Phil (trigpoint)<br>
<br>
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