<div dir="auto">Hello,</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I’d urge people to tag these separately for many reasons that Jon’s covered for cycles also applies to wheelchair users and others with mobility issues. This page on the wiki <div dir="auto"><a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Wheelchair_routing">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Wheelchair_routing</a> and this community discussion <div dir="auto"><a href="https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/is-there-consensus-on-mapping-pavements-sidewalks-separately-to-roads/1067">https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/is-there-consensus-on-mapping-pavements-sidewalks-separately-to-roads/1067</a> may be of relevant interest to several of you.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Cheers!</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Aimee </div></div></div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, 19 Apr 2022 at 13:02 Jon Pennycook via Talk-GB <<a href="mailto:talk-gb@openstreetmap.org">talk-gb@openstreetmap.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div dir="auto">Hello Chris.<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">This is one reason why I disagree with people who delete cycleways and replace with a generic cycleway=track on the road. The data on dropped kerbs, inaccessible barriers, and dismount sections are lost. The late Heavy Metal Handcyclist <a href="https://twitter.com/CrippledCyclist" target="_blank">https://twitter.com/CrippledCyclist</a> used to post on Twitter on how they would get councils to remove such barriers (their cycle was their mobility aid). </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">From my point of view, having my pannier bags full of shopping or stuff for my holiday means I can't just dismount and push my bike over a raised kerb, and getting round narrow gaps in barriers is impossible. Similarly, people tagging non-cyclable ways as bicycle=yes makes journey planning problematic.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Jon</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, 19 Apr 2022, 12:51 Chris Hodges, <<a href="mailto:chris@c-hodges.co.uk" target="_blank">chris@c-hodges.co.uk</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<p>The editor in this case is clearly wrong, and this is why we have
the "dismount" tag, which renderers are free to use/stuff up as
they see fit.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>But the main problem here isn't really the user. It's the
planners who designate cycle routes that can't be cycled. Not all
cyclists can dismount and push. Reading up on accessible cycling
recently has been eye-opening<br>
</p></div></blockquote></div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div>
<div>On 19/04/2022 11:12, Jon Pennycook via
Talk-GB wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="auto">
<div>> But I have noticed that a small number of people on
OSM don't seem to like cycle infra (or maybe they don't
understand it).</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">And some people like to put bicycle=yes on
things that are convenient for them to cycle on, even when
they are clearly private or have Cyclists Dismount signs. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">For example, footways with Cyclists Dismount
signs, formerly tagged bicycle=dismount, and members of two
LCNs and an NCN:-</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">> <span>Hi
the signs are present, but it is a route for cyclists, by
customising the drop down you exclude the section from 3rd
party systems that use the data. Hence changed to Yes for
cycles, as it is regardless of whether ridden or pushed.</span><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, 18 Apr 2022, 07:28
Jon Pennycook, <<a href="mailto:jpennycook@bcs.org.uk" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">jpennycook@bcs.org.uk</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div dir="ltr">Morning.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I think those are two different people -
Nathan_A_RF now tends to specialise in edits around
Southampton (I think they used some controversial
sources for a wider area until last Autumn, according
to their Block page), and AR_Mapper specialises in
Bracknell and New York.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>But I have noticed that a small number of people on
OSM don't seem to like cycle infra (or maybe they
don't understand it).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Jon</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 at
05:41, Robert Skedgell <<a href="mailto:rob@hubris.org.uk" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">rob@hubris.org.uk</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">The same user added
an entirely spurious bicycle=no to a bus gate in <br>
Woodham Ferrers. This made cycle routers take the
scenic route and <br>
turned 300m of shared footway along Ferrers Road into
a dead end. There <br>
was no source for the "corrections" in this edit. How
odd that cycle <br>
infra seems to be the common feature in their
problematic edits...<br>
<br>
<a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/93778124" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/93778124</a><br>
<br>
On 17/04/2022 18:51, Jon Pennycook via Talk-GB wrote:<br>
> Thanks Phil - that's very helpful.<br>
> <br>
> I don't understand what caused them to do this.
It turns out they are <br>
> not new - they just have a low edit count and
that I've spoken to them <br>
> before about cycleways in Bracknell:-<br>
> <a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/92601276" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/92601276</a>
<br>
> <<a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/92601276" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/92601276</a>><br>
> <br>
> Jon<br>
> <br>
> On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 at 18:47, Philip Barnes <<a href="mailto:phil@trigpoint.me.uk" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">phil@trigpoint.me.uk</a>
<br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:phil@trigpoint.me.uk" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">phil@trigpoint.me.uk</a>>>
wrote:<br>
> <br>
> I believe I have reverted<br>
> it, <a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/119825773" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/119825773</a><br>
> <<a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/119825773" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/119825773</a>><br>
> <br>
> Phil (trigpoint)<br>
> <br>
> On Sun, 2022-04-17 at 18:10 +0100, Jon
Pennycook via Talk-GB wrote:<br>
> > Hello.<br>
> ><br>
> > A relatively new mapper just deleted a
whole load of cycleways in<br>
> > Bracknell that were correctly mapped in<br>
> > <a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/119816211" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/119816211</a><br>
> <<a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/119816211" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/119816211</a>><br>
> > I wasn't able to use <a href="http://revert.osmz.ru/" rel="noreferrer
noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://revert.osmz.ru/</a><br>
> <<a href="http://revert.osmz.ru/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://revert.osmz.ru/</a>>
to revert the change:-<br>
> > Status: too big<br>
> > Error: Would not revert 644 changes<br>
> ><br>
> > Could someone assist with the
reversion, please? Or should I contact<br>
> > the DWG for assistance?<br>
> ><br>
> > Jon Pennycook<br>
> >
_______________________________________________<br>
> > Talk-GB mailing list<br>
> > <a href="mailto:Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org</a>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org</a>><br>
> > <a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb</a><br>
> <<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb</a>><br>
> <br>
> <br>
>
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> <a href="mailto:Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org</a>
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> <a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb</a><br>
> <<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb</a>><br>
> <br>
> <br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
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> <a href="mailto:Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
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<br>
<br>
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</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<pre style="font-family:monospace">_______________________________________________
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</pre>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote></div>
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</blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><table width="365" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" style="border-collapse:collapse;border-spacing:0px;color:rgb(20,49,65);font-family:proxima-nova,sans-serif;font-size:16px"><tbody><tr><td style="padding:0px;vertical-align:top;color:rgb(173,33,151);font-size:12px;font-family:"Gill Sans","Segoe UI","Trebuchet MS",sans-serif"><span><span style="font-weight:700"><span style="margin-right:5px;color:rgb(219,200,23);font-size:15px"><u>Aimee Knight</u></span></span></span><br><span style="font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><a href="mailto:aimee@newgaea.net" style="background-color:transparent;color:rgb(51,136,204)" target="_blank">aimee@newgaea.net</a></span> | <a href="mailto:aimee.knight@aimeesunflower.com" style="background-color:transparent;color:rgb(51,136,204)" target="_blank">aimee.knight@aimeesunflower.com</a><br><span style="font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal">UK Phone <a href="tel:+44+7576+661461" style="background-color:transparent;color:rgb(51,136,204)" target="_blank">+44 757 666 1461</a></span> <span style="font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal">US SMS Only <a href="tel:+1+202+618+2470" style="background-color:transparent;color:rgb(51,136,204)" target="_blank">+1 202 618 2470</a></span><br><img src="https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1ry9eXwL7633suQUfsMaaL4EPic09vPAE&revid=0B3rd23sDd2CXTzBYc0Rka2lCaSs5Y1JxZGVkVHoyd2wyemR3PQ" width="200" height="60"><br>Aberdeen, United Kingdom, and Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA.<a href="https://www.aimeesunflower.com/" style="background-color:transparent;color:rgb(51,136,204)" target="_blank"><br>www.aimeesunflower.com</a></td></tr></tbody></table><table width="365" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" style="border-collapse:collapse;border-spacing:0px;color:rgb(20,49,65);font-family:proxima-nova,sans-serif;font-size:16px;margin-top:10px"><tbody><tr><td style="padding:0px;color:rgb(7,56,15);font-family:"Gill Sans","Segoe UI","Trebuchet MS",sans-serif"><p style="margin:0px 0px 22px"><b><font size="2">In crisis? US Text HELLO to 741741, UK Text SHOUT to 85258.</font></b></p><p style="font-size:10px;margin:0px 0px 22px">This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.</p></td></tr></tbody></table></div></div></div></div></div>