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<p>I agree completely, and Heavy Metal Handcyclist was one of the
accessibility advocates I was thinking of, along with riders whose
bikes give them mobility while being harder to recognise as
mobility aids (e.g. <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://twitter.com/tricyclemayor">https://twitter.com/tricyclemayor</a> ). Then
there's the gentleman who parked his e-bike outside Lidl, unfolded
his walking stick, and went off to do his shopping as I was
loading my bike - he wouldn't be doing much pushing.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>I'm an able-bodied bike tourist so my difficulties are mere
irritations compared to the trouble some people have (pretty big
irritations when I have to lift it over a gate because the gap
it's supposed to be pushed through is too tiny and it weighs 40kg
laden - but irritations nonetheless)<br>
</p>
<p>BTW I'm wary of deleting anything myself, let alone deleting to
replace with another way of recording.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>I had routing issues on Sunday where Komoot had used OSM data to
route us up something labelled "public footpath" and not loking
much like it was designed to be ridden
(<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/119859473">https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/119859473</a> is my attempt
to fix). I think<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 19/04/2022 13:00, Jon Pennycook
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAO56uom-ABqi5jpkuYsx3O8+Bz7e-k7OrJhcdGk_9_79eZ_rSQ@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="auto">Hello Chris.
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">This is one reason why I disagree with people
who delete cycleways and replace with a generic cycleway=track
on the road. The data on dropped kerbs, inaccessible barriers,
and dismount sections are lost. The late Heavy Metal
Handcyclist <a href="https://twitter.com/CrippledCyclist"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://twitter.com/CrippledCyclist</a>
used to post on Twitter on how they would get councils to
remove such barriers (their cycle was their mobility aid). </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">From my point of view, having my pannier bags
full of shopping or stuff for my holiday means I can't just
dismount and push my bike over a raised kerb, and getting
round narrow gaps in barriers is impossible. Similarly, people
tagging non-cyclable ways as bicycle=yes makes journey
planning problematic.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Jon</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, 19 Apr 2022, 12:51
Chris Hodges, <<a href="mailto:chris@c-hodges.co.uk"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">chris@c-hodges.co.uk</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>The editor in this case is clearly wrong, and this is why
we have the "dismount" tag, which renderers are free to
use/stuff up as they see fit.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>But the main problem here isn't really the user. It's
the planners who designate cycle routes that can't be
cycled. Not all cyclists can dismount and push. Reading
up on accessible cycling recently has been eye-opening<br>
</p>
<div>On 19/04/2022 11:12, Jon Pennycook via Talk-GB wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="auto">
<div>> But I have noticed that a small number of
people on OSM don't seem to like cycle infra (or maybe
they don't understand it).</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">And some people like to put bicycle=yes
on things that are convenient for them to cycle on,
even when they are clearly private or have Cyclists
Dismount signs. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">For example, footways with Cyclists
Dismount signs, formerly tagged bicycle=dismount, and
members of two LCNs and an NCN:-</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">> <span>Hi the signs are present, but
it is a route for cyclists, by customising the drop
down you exclude the section from 3rd party systems
that use the data. Hence changed to Yes for cycles,
as it is regardless of whether ridden or pushed.</span><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, 18 Apr
2022, 07:28 Jon Pennycook, <<a
href="mailto:jpennycook@bcs.org.uk"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">jpennycook@bcs.org.uk</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Morning.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I think those are two different people -
Nathan_A_RF now tends to specialise in edits
around Southampton (I think they used some
controversial sources for a wider area until
last Autumn, according to their Block page),
and AR_Mapper specialises in Bracknell and New
York.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>But I have noticed that a small number of
people on OSM don't seem to like cycle infra
(or maybe they don't understand it).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Jon</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, 18 Apr
2022 at 05:41, Robert Skedgell <<a
href="mailto:rob@hubris.org.uk"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">rob@hubris.org.uk</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">The same
user added an entirely spurious bicycle=no to
a bus gate in <br>
Woodham Ferrers. This made cycle routers take
the scenic route and <br>
turned 300m of shared footway along Ferrers
Road into a dead end. There <br>
was no source for the "corrections" in this
edit. How odd that cycle <br>
infra seems to be the common feature in their
problematic edits...<br>
<br>
<a
href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/93778124"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/93778124</a><br>
<br>
On 17/04/2022 18:51, Jon Pennycook via Talk-GB
wrote:<br>
> Thanks Phil - that's very helpful.<br>
> <br>
> I don't understand what caused them to do
this. It turns out they are <br>
> not new - they just have a low edit count
and that I've spoken to them <br>
> before about cycleways in Bracknell:-<br>
> <a
href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/92601276"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/92601276</a>
<br>
> <<a
href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/92601276"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/92601276</a>><br>
> <br>
> Jon<br>
> <br>
> On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 at 18:47, Philip
Barnes <<a
href="mailto:phil@trigpoint.me.uk"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">phil@trigpoint.me.uk</a>
<br>
> <mailto:<a
href="mailto:phil@trigpoint.me.uk"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">phil@trigpoint.me.uk</a>>>
wrote:<br>
> <br>
> I believe I have reverted<br>
> it, <a
href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/119825773"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/119825773</a><br>
> <<a
href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/119825773"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/119825773</a>><br>
> <br>
> Phil (trigpoint)<br>
> <br>
> On Sun, 2022-04-17 at 18:10 +0100,
Jon Pennycook via Talk-GB wrote:<br>
> > Hello.<br>
> ><br>
> > A relatively new mapper just
deleted a whole load of cycleways in<br>
> > Bracknell that were correctly
mapped in<br>
> > <a
href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/119816211"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/119816211</a><br>
> <<a
href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/119816211"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/119816211</a>><br>
> > I wasn't able to use <a
href="http://revert.osmz.ru/"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://revert.osmz.ru/</a><br>
> <<a href="http://revert.osmz.ru/"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://revert.osmz.ru/</a>>
to revert the change:-<br>
> > Status: too big<br>
> > Error: Would not revert 644
changes<br>
> ><br>
> > Could someone assist with the
reversion, please? Or should I contact<br>
> > the DWG for assistance?<br>
> ><br>
> > Jon Pennycook<br>
> >
_______________________________________________<br>
> > Talk-GB mailing list<br>
> > <a
href="mailto:Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org</a>
<mailto:<a
href="mailto:Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org</a>><br>
> > <a
href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb</a><br>
> <<a
href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb</a>><br>
> <br>
> <br>
>
_______________________________________________<br>
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<mailto:<a
href="mailto:Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org</a>><br>
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href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb"
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target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb</a><br>
> <<a
href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb</a>><br>
> <br>
> <br>
>
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<br>
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href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb"
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<pre>_______________________________________________
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