<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=Windows-1252">
<style type="text/css" style="display:none;"> P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;} </style>
</head>
<body dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="elementToProof">
<br>
</div>
</div>
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr">
<div class="elementToProof"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">Do we have any form of "use of this data is at your own risk and its accuracy cannot be guaranteed" type clause?</span></div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Does the landowner actually understand what "access=private" means?</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Whatever, some sort of disclaimer on the data so that neither mappers nor producers of renderings can be on the receiving end of litigation would be a good plan, I guess.</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Nick</div>
<div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div id="x_Signature">
<div>
<div id="x_divtagdefaultwrapper" dir="ltr" style="color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt">
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"></p>
<div style="margin:0px"><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="x_appendonsend"></div>
<hr tabindex="-1" style="display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id="x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> George Honeywood <talk-gb-osm@honeyfox.uk><br>
<b>Sent:</b> 21 April 2022 18:28<br>
<b>To:</b> talk-gb@openstreetmap.org <talk-gb@openstreetmap.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Talk-GB] Private tracks through a farmyard</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div class="x_BodyFragment"><font size="2"><span style="font-size:11pt">
<div class="x_PlainText">Hi all,<br>
<br>
I've received some messages from a user [1] regarding private tracks that run through their farm. A year ago they deleted these tracks from OSM, and about a month after that I reinstated them, adding access=private [2].<br>
<br>
[1]: <a href="https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstreetmap.org%2Fuser%2FRob%2520Moss%2Fhistory&data=05%7C01%7Cnick.whitelegg%40solent.ac.uk%7C9a972f26069440e06c0c08da23bcd1f2%7Cd684e4cd491a4577bf33546478d72e3c%7C0%7C0%7C637861591237063474%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=qEB30FyWjL0JHhXDyK446Trlf4nIHoRIdsORbYJWRTk%3D&reserved=0" data-auth="NotApplicable">
https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstreetmap.org%2Fuser%2FRob%2520Moss%2Fhistory&data=05%7C01%7Cnick.whitelegg%40solent.ac.uk%7C9a972f26069440e06c0c08da23bcd1f2%7Cd684e4cd491a4577bf33546478d72e3c%7C0%7C0%7C637861591237063474%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=qEB30FyWjL0JHhXDyK446Trlf4nIHoRIdsORbYJWRTk%3D&reserved=0</a><br>
[2]: <a href="https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstreetmap.org%2Fchangeset%2F102054359&data=05%7C01%7Cnick.whitelegg%40solent.ac.uk%7C9a972f26069440e06c0c08da23bcd1f2%7Cd684e4cd491a4577bf33546478d72e3c%7C0%7C0%7C637861591237063474%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=76T9YlNFhHX0KtCvqQudKkLAWMpJExRYn1aSHyOC7is%3D&reserved=0" data-auth="NotApplicable">
https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstreetmap.org%2Fchangeset%2F102054359&data=05%7C01%7Cnick.whitelegg%40solent.ac.uk%7C9a972f26069440e06c0c08da23bcd1f2%7Cd684e4cd491a4577bf33546478d72e3c%7C0%7C0%7C637861591237063474%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=76T9YlNFhHX0KtCvqQudKkLAWMpJExRYn1aSHyOC7is%3D&reserved=0</a><br>
<br>
Since then they have had people walk down these private tracks, and so, have removed them again. From my point of view it is better to leave them on the map, with access=private, as this should discourage people from using these paths -- and prevents another
armchair mapper from re-adding them as non private tracks later on.<br>
<br>
I am confused as the people were led down this private track by the "OS APP". This is presumably offered by Ordnance Survey -- which probably wouldn't be using OSM data, and even if it does, it should make private tracks look private, like Mapnik greys them
on osm.org.<br>
<br>
I think this is a bit above my pay grade, hence messaging the list (and I won't be making any further edits). Obviously it isn't good to have people walking down dangerous private tracks, but I don't think removing them from OSM is the way to go. If any of
you have experience with the OS Maps app then it would be good to know if it uses OSM data, and if so how it handles access=private.<br>
<br>
For context here are the private messages:<br>
<br>
Their first message:<br>
> Dear Sir, we had someone injured yesterday by a herd of cattle using our private farm track. They were on the track when met by 100 cows. They were following an edit done by yourself 10 months ago; the edit to re-add the track is showing as a footpath in
the OS APP. Your edits are leading people off the footpaths into two busy private farm yards. I am unsure why you would be doing this!? Regards. Rob<br>
<br>
My reply:<br>
> Hi Rob,<br>
> Sorry, I think there has been a bit of confusion here. openstreetmap.org, the website/database, isn’t related to the OS Maps app. That app is run by Ordnance Survey, not OpenStreetMap.<br>
> On OpenStreetMap, the farm tracks are a grey colour, which indicates that are private, meaning the public shouldn’t use them. Route planners that use OpenStreetMap data should also reflect this, routing via the public footpaths instead of the private tracks.<br>
> If there are more tracks that need to be marked private in OpenStreetMap, please edit them as such (or you can point out to me which ones need changing and I can edit them). If the issue is with the Ordnance Survey map then you’d be better off speaking to
them.<br>
> Apologies for any inconvenience, George<br>
<br>
Their second message:<br>
> Dear George, There is no confusion. I have spoken to the OSMaps team and their app is updated from the maps you have edited. Hence my message directly to yourself. I deleted the tracks off the open street map having previously met a family while on the tractor….you
then decided you know better than and reinstated them? There was a note connected to the revision which detailed the reason for deleting the tracks. I cannot understand why you would do this, it has caused a lady a nasty injury to her leg. If you genuinely
did this as a mistake/didn’t realise the consequences of your actions then please take more care in the future. Regards Rob<br>
<br>
Thanks for any thoughts on this,<br>
George Honeywood<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Talk-GB mailing list<br>
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org<br>
<a href="https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.openstreetmap.org%2Flistinfo%2Ftalk-gb&data=05%7C01%7Cnick.whitelegg%40solent.ac.uk%7C9a972f26069440e06c0c08da23bcd1f2%7Cd684e4cd491a4577bf33546478d72e3c%7C0%7C0%7C637861591237063474%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=iukDypweVj%2BYoPQWWI9XHIskDNdjqdXJXAdqWuCW0rU%3D&reserved=0" data-auth="NotApplicable">https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.openstreetmap.org%2Flistinfo%2Ftalk-gb&data=05%7C01%7Cnick.whitelegg%40solent.ac.uk%7C9a972f26069440e06c0c08da23bcd1f2%7Cd684e4cd491a4577bf33546478d72e3c%7C0%7C0%7C637861591237063474%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=iukDypweVj%2BYoPQWWI9XHIskDNdjqdXJXAdqWuCW0rU%3D&reserved=0</a><br>
</div>
</span></font></div>
</div>
</body>
</html>