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<p>Thanks Rob.</p>
<p>As a bit of context, on 30/6/2022 Jez wrote:</p>
<p>
<blockquote type="cite">OSMUK were approached by TfL at the
beginning where we put forward cycling OSMers like CycleStreets
and <a href="http://cycle.travel">cycle.travel</a>.
CycleStreets did the initial consulting, with a fair amount of
community discussion and lots of effort, and have now handed
over the baton to Sweco and GHD. I do hope that we can work
with them rather than against.</blockquote>
I then asked "links" and Rob replied with the email below.<br>
</p>
<p><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/TfL_Cycling_Infrastructure_Database#Work_to_Date">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/TfL_Cycling_Infrastructure_Database#Work_to_Date</a>
and
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/TfL_Cycling_Infrastructure_Database#Current_Work">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/TfL_Cycling_Infrastructure_Database#Current_Work</a>
seem to be a good summary of what's happened so far and answer the
"were approached by" and "cyclestreets did consulting" parts of
the question that I was asking for links for.</p>
<p>The third part was asking for information about "a fair amount of
community discussion and lots of effort". I don't doubt that
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/TfL_Cycling_Infrastructure_Database#Data_Merge_Workflow">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/TfL_Cycling_Infrastructure_Database#Data_Merge_Workflow</a>
involved "lots of effort" but I don't see any evidence of
"community discussion" at all.</p>
<p>Worryingly I also don't see anything in
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/TfL_Cycling_Infrastructure_Database">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/TfL_Cycling_Infrastructure_Database</a>
that addresses what happens when TfL's data suggests one thing and
OSM's suggests another. In some cases TfL data will be correct and
in some cases OSM will - I'd expect that an on-the-ground survey
(or access to photos from one) would be needed to resolve.<br>
</p>
<p><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/TfL_Cycling_Infrastructure_Database#Process_Workflow">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/TfL_Cycling_Infrastructure_Database#Process_Workflow</a>
also contains "we will regularly check for comments [on OSM
changesets]". That simply didn't happen effectively, as can be
seen at
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-discussion-comments?uid=15976978">https://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-discussion-comments?uid=15976978</a>
. Many of the issues there appear seem to be because TfL's data
is out of date. I'd have expected the conflation process to
explicitly say what should happen in this case.</p>
<p>Had
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Organised_Editing_Guidelines">https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Organised_Editing_Guidelines</a>
been followed, an entry for Sweco being present at
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Organised_Editing/Activities">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Organised_Editing/Activities</a>
(but note *1), <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/AyushS183">https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/AyushS183</a> and
any other editors had a profile that pointed to
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Organised_Editing/Activities/TfL_Cycling_Infrastructure_Database">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Organised_Editing/Activities/TfL_Cycling_Infrastructure_Database</a>
and been suitably trained (both also as required by
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Organised_Editing_Guidelines">https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Organised_Editing_Guidelines</a> )
none of this would have been an issue and the DWG wouldn't have
had complaints about the quality of the editing and the other
aspects of the project.</p>
<p>While we're waiting for the people running this project to reply
here, it would be extremely useful to know <b>whether the data
that has been added for this project so far is of a good enough
quality</b> to add to OSM. So far we're only aware of edits by
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/AyushS183/history">https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/AyushS183/history</a> . The lack
of documentation means that we can't assume that there aren't
other contributors, but the ones that we do know about have a
changeset source of "tfl cycle database".</p>
<p>There are 554 changesets that we're aware of so far and the
overpass queries at *2 will help identify local changes,<br>
</p>
<p>Best Regards,</p>
<p>Andy Townsend, on behalf of OSM's Data Working Group</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>*1 confusingly something for TfL with a start date of 2020-06 and
an end date of 2020-07
does exist there, but it does not mention Sweco at all</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>*2 All features including relations:<br>
</p>
<p><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://overpass-turbo.eu/?q=LyoKVGhpcyBoYcSGYmVlbiBnxI1lcmF0ZWQgYnkgdGhlIG92xJJwxIlzLXR1cmJvIHdpemFyZC7EgsSdxJ9yaWdpbmFsIHNlxLBjaMSsxIk6CsOiwoDCnHNob3AgxLogbG91Z2hicsWTxZXFiMKdCiovClvFk3Q6anNvbl1bdGltZcWiOjI1XTsKLy8gZmV0xYIgxLDFgCDFiMKcxZLFlMWWxZjGhMWbxJvEq8S_xYHFg8S6Cnt7xJBvY29kZUFyxYA6xoPFlcSqxobFlX19LT4uxotyxYLGmMWAxbTFtsSPxJTEnXIgxplzdWx0cwooCiAgxqxxdcSSxJrEo3J0xbhvcjrGgMWJxYvFjcWbxrogbndyKMaQYsSqeMahKSh1xL_HhyJBecebaFMxODMiKcW0xrvFtndheVsix4twIl0oxb5hxqXFgManaMapYceox47FtsaZbMSUacWnx6_Hscezx7XGmce3xqbGqMiKx77HvsascMS3bseExrLGtMa2CsWixJjGlXnFtD7FtMiac2tlxL1xdDs&c=BJnwm9b5HT">http://overpass-turbo.eu/?q=LyoKVGhpcyBoYcSGYmVlbiBnxI1lcmF0ZWQgYnkgdGhlIG92xJJwxIlzLXR1cmJvIHdpemFyZC7EgsSdxJ9yaWdpbmFsIHNlxLBjaMSsxIk6CsOiwoDCnHNob3AgxLogbG91Z2hicsWTxZXFiMKdCiovClvFk3Q6anNvbl1bdGltZcWiOjI1XTsKLy8gZmV0xYIgxLDFgCDFiMKcxZLFlMWWxZjGhMWbxJvEq8S_xYHFg8S6Cnt7xJBvY29kZUFyxYA6xoPFlcSqxobFlX19LT4uxotyxYLGmMWAxbTFtsSPxJTEnXIgxplzdWx0cwooCiAgxqxxdcSSxJrEo3J0xbhvcjrGgMWJxYvFjcWbxrogbndyKMaQYsSqeMahKSh1xL_HhyJBecebaFMxODMiKcW0xrvFtndheVsix4twIl0oxb5hxqXFgManaMapYceox47FtsaZbMSUacWnx6_Hscezx7XGmce3xqbGqMiKx77HvsascMS3bseExrLGtMa2CsWixJjGlXnFtD7FtMiac2tlxL1xdDs&c=BJnwm9b5HT</a></p>
<p>nodes and ways:</p>
<p><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://overpass-turbo.eu/?q=LyoKVGhpcyBoYcSGYmVlbiBnxI1lcmF0ZWQgYnkgdGhlIG92xJJwxIlzLXR1cmJvIHdpemFyZC7EgsSdxJ9yaWdpbmFsIHNlxLBjaMSsxIk6CsOiwoDCnHNob3AgxLogbG91Z2hicsWTxZXFiMKdCiovClvFk3Q6anNvbl1bdGltZcWiOjI1XTsKLy8gZmV0xYIgxLDFgCDFiMKcxZLFlMWWxZjGhMWbxJvEq8S_xYHFg8S6Cnt7xJBvY29kZUFyxYA6xoPFlcSqxobFlX19LT4uxotyxYLGmMWAxbTFtsSPxJTEnXIgxplzdWx0cwooCiAgxqxxdcSSxJrEo3J0xbhvcjrGgMWJxYvFjcWbxrogbsaVZSjGkGLEqnjGoSkodcS_x4ciQXnHm2hTMTgzIinFtMa7d2F5x5N7x5Vvx5d9x5nHm8SSOseex6DFi8ejx6XHp8epxrwvxplsxJRpxadbIseLcCJdKMW-YcalxYDGp2jGqWHHqArIlcascMS3bseExrLGtMa2CsWixJjGlXnFtD7FtMihc2tlxL1xdDs&c=BJnwcOyk9R">http://overpass-turbo.eu/?q=LyoKVGhpcyBoYcSGYmVlbiBnxI1lcmF0ZWQgYnkgdGhlIG92xJJwxIlzLXR1cmJvIHdpemFyZC7EgsSdxJ9yaWdpbmFsIHNlxLBjaMSsxIk6CsOiwoDCnHNob3AgxLogbG91Z2hicsWTxZXFiMKdCiovClvFk3Q6anNvbl1bdGltZcWiOjI1XTsKLy8gZmV0xYIgxLDFgCDFiMKcxZLFlMWWxZjGhMWbxJvEq8S_xYHFg8S6Cnt7xJBvY29kZUFyxYA6xoPFlcSqxobFlX19LT4uxotyxYLGmMWAxbTFtsSPxJTEnXIgxplzdWx0cwooCiAgxqxxdcSSxJrEo3J0xbhvcjrGgMWJxYvFjcWbxrogbsaVZSjGkGLEqnjGoSkodcS_x4ciQXnHm2hTMTgzIinFtMa7d2F5x5N7x5Vvx5d9x5nHm8SSOseex6DFi8ejx6XHp8epxrwvxplsxJRpxadbIseLcCJdKMW-YcalxYDGp2jGqWHHqArIlcascMS3bseExrLGtMa2CsWixJjGlXnFtD7FtMihc2tlxL1xdDs&c=BJnwcOyk9R</a></p>
<p>The "nodes and ways" query is likely to be the more useful of the
two I expect.<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 02/07/2022 19:47, Rob Nickerson
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAK4yQTkM6sSesBNte-NXDMr4nw5sUfKsWwQmbBXcLncaAyuQMg@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="auto">Hi Andy,
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">You asked for links:</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Overview:</div>
<div dir="auto"><a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/TfL_Cycling_Infrastructure_Database"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/TfL_Cycling_Infrastructure_Database</a></div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Licence details:</div>
<div dir="auto"><a
href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2019-August/023356.html"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2019-August/023356.html</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">OSM UK's involvement:</div>
<div dir="auto">"TfL Cycle Infrastructure. They accepted our
proposal to ask the Talent Directory to help with them, this
has been sent."</div>
<div dir="auto"><a
href="https://osmuk.org/minutes/board-meeting-2019-03-13/"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://osmuk.org/minutes/board-meeting-2019-03-13/</a></div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Other references on OSM UK website including
meeting slides:</div>
<div dir="auto"><a
href="https://www.google.com/search?q=tfl%20site%3Aosmuk.org"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.google.com/search?q=tfl%20site%3Aosmuk.org</a></div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Should you want any more links, please detail
what your are seeking and I'll dig out an appropriate link.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Thanks</div>
<div dir="auto">Rob</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
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</pre>
</blockquote>
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