<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hello, Andy from the DWG here.</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Thanks for raising this. There's
actually already a DWG ticket for this (Ticket#2023011510000079);
I've added this list post to that.<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">There are a couple of things going on
here, and it's worth looking at each in turn.</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">1) Edits to the wiki that do not
reflect actual usage in OSM.</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">There has been a lot of "is X a synonym
of Y" activity on
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:building%3Ddormitory&action=history">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:building%3Ddormitory&action=history</a>
, with all the while the page just being a stub with almost no
useful information on it.<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">It is true that some of these edits
were by "Adamant1", and asking "have they attracted controversy in
the past" is a bit like making an inquiry into "ursine lavatorial
affairs". However, here they're not the only contributor to this
page since 2022, which is where the "don't use tag X, use tag Y"
stuff started. I have removed the one remaining "possible tagging
mistake" from the wiki pages to discourage people from fiddling
with the data based on what it says here. See also
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:building%3Dhall_of_residence">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:building%3Dhall_of_residence</a>
.<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">However, I'm sure that these wiki pages
would still benefit from more examples. What it would also be
useful to do would be to explain there the difference between
building and amenity tags:</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">A "building" tag just describes the
building type. If does not say anything about what the building
is currently used for. Other tags (such as "amenity") do that.
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/building%3Ause">https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/building%3Ause</a> also has
significant usage for a building's current usage.</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Generally speaking, if a particular
wiki editor's activity is a problem I'd suggest contacting them
(in the first instance) and then the regular wiki admins (if
further action is needed). The DWG doesn't normally get involved
as a group in saying what should and should not be in the wiki.<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">2) Edits to the data based on the wiki
page.</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Yes, "kechan_tagfix" has corrupted a
lot of surveyed tags in OSM. <br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">I raised it with them on
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/131784711">https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/131784711</a> and
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://openstreetmap.org/changeset/131300925">https://openstreetmap.org/changeset/131300925</a> . On that latter
changeset as of "2023-01-31" they said "I will try to look more
into things before making a change from something on the osm
wiki", which I had assumed meant that they would stop this
activity. They are still making changes such as
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://osm.mapki.com/history/node/9670981349">https://osm.mapki.com/history/node/9670981349</a> so I will (a) block
them until they contact the DWG so that we can explain again what
is required again and (b) revert the corrupted data back to the
status quo ante.</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Edits to tags that people have surveyed
should not be made in a "mechanical search and replace" manner
unless
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_Edits_code_of_conduct">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_Edits_code_of_conduct</a>
is followed. If someone's made an obvious typo, then fixing it is
fine, but "guessing what someone might have meant" is not OK if
it's not obvious. <br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Changing one tag to another just based
on someone having edited a wiki page is not OK.</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Changing one tag to another just
because a few people took part in a wiki vote is not OK.</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
In each of these cases,
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_Edits_code_of_conduct">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_Edits_code_of_conduct</a>
should be followed. Partly this is so that people know to expect a
change; partly this is to avoid people with limited experience of
tag changes avoid making a mess (this recently happened with
database tagfiddling that occurred after
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:site_type">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:site_type</a> was "voted away".
I'm a data consumer for that tag, and the first I knew of the change
were some features showing up incorrectly at
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#17/54.09320/-1.40360">https://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#17/54.09320/-1.40360</a>
. See also
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/massenedit-von-site-type-zu-archaeological-site-diskutiert-und-abgesprochen/6577">https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/massenedit-von-site-type-zu-archaeological-site-diskutiert-und-abgesprochen/6577</a>
and
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/implementation-of-new-tagging-scheme-of-archaeological-site/7850">https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/implementation-of-new-tagging-scheme-of-archaeological-site/7850</a>
.<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">In addition, "fixing" an "obviously
wrong" tag combination by removing one of the problem tags is
not a solution. It took a while, but that was the outcome of
the discussion on
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/125817813">https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/125817813</a> (ignore the
various misconceptions about various things from a couple of
people earlier in the list of comments). If may be that sources
are available that make it pretty clear which tag is wrong; but
"just guessing" is not OK.</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Changing an "obviously incorrect" tag
value to something that is just guesswork is also wrong. There
are lots of errors in OSM, and lots of QA sites help people find
things that need fixing. Local people can find errors near them
and fix them based on survey, local knowledge, or other sources
other than guesswork. It may be that some of the "status quo
ante" values changed here were "obviously incorrect", and if
they get changed to something better by local mappers later;
that's great - but they'll only be able to see the problem if
the object shows up on a QA site as a potential issue.<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Best Regards,</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Andy<br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 06/02/2023 21:38, nathuary via
Talk-GB wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:VhsbddFojCyTKyCroTxqiXAfSwgim5CanB7jRU1z0lCXNXN34y_qyLS_A5ETrC5AKBHyF0yDqVY1kIvher35MG80RdSoQsp_NC9zT217prQ=@protonmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0,
0);">A new account (<span><a target="_blank" rel="noreferrer
nofollow noopener"
href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/kechan_tagfix"
moz-do-not-send="true">kechan_tagfix</a></span>) of a
relatively new user (<span><a target="_blank" rel="noreferrer
nofollow noopener"
href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/kechan"
moz-do-not-send="true">kechan</a></span>) has been replacing
uncommon building tags with more common ones, seemingly
according to "p<span>ossible tagging mistakes</span>" on the
wiki.</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0,
0);"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0,
0);">These edits in general may require a closer look, since
they seem like essentially automated edits in small enough
chunks to not be noticed (whether that's deliberate or not), but
in particular they removed all instances of <span>building=hall_of_residence
throughout January, replacing them with building=dormitory.</span></div>
<div style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0,
0);"><span><br>
</span></div>
<div style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0,
0);"><span>They were likely just following the suggestion of the
building=dormitory page, which suggests
building=hall_of_residence as a possible tagging mistake since
this revision <span><a target="_blank" rel="noreferrer
nofollow noopener"
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:building%3Ddormitory&oldid=2427402"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:building%3Ddormitory&oldid=2427402</a>.</span></span></div>
<div style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0,
0);"><span><span><br>
</span></span></div>
<div style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0,
0);"><span><span>Perhaps notably this revision was by <span><a
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener"
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Adamant1"
moz-do-not-send="true">Adamant1</a>, who I'm vaguely
aware seems to attract regular controversy.</span></span></span></div>
<div style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0,
0);"><span><span><span><br>
</span></span></span></div>
<div style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0,
0);"><span><span><span>The status of building=hall_of_residence
has also been changed from in use to obsolete in this
revision <span><a target="_blank" rel="noreferrer
nofollow noopener"
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:building%3Dhall_of_residence&oldid=2464093"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:building%3Dhall_of_residence&oldid=2464093</a></span>.<br>
</span></span></span></div>
<div style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0,
0);"><span><span><span><br>
</span></span></span></div>
<div style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0,
0);"><span><span><span>Given the lack of discussion beforehand
(as far as I'm aware), should these changesets and wiki
edits be reverted?<br>
</span></span></span></div>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>