<div dir="ltr"><div>Changing name:en is ridiculous. OSM is supposed to be descriptive, not prescriptive. English speakers cannot pronounce "Bannau Brycheiniog". They call it the Brecon Beacons. If/when there comes a time when English speakers say "Bannau Brycheiniog" then, and only then, should name:en be updated. That day is certainly not today. Language does not change overnight and certainly doesn't change when some authority decides to force foreign words into a language.</div><div><br></div><div>If you want to make the ground truth argument then let's change London to name:fr=London because I doubt you'll find a sign on the ground that says "Londres". The French language can get stuffed.<br></div><div><br></div><div>The name tag can definitely change but name:en is still Brecon Beacons, at least for now. This is the entire point of the name:en tag.<br></div><div><br></div><div>-- Borbus<br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Apr 17, 2023 at 4:45 PM Nathan Case <<a href="mailto:nathancase@outlook.com">nathancase@outlook.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Agreed. I suggest:</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>name = Bannau Brycheiniog National Park</p>
<p>name:cy = Parc Cenedlaethol Bannau Brycheiniog</p>
<p>name:en = Bannau Brycheiniog National Park</p>
<p>old_name = Brecon Beacons National Park</p>
<p>short_name = Bannau Brycheiniog</p>
<p>short_name:cy = Bannau Brycheiniog</p>
<p>alt_name = The Bannau</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>I think the inclusion of "Brecon Beacons" in the old_name key
should mean the national park is still searchable by that name
(e.g. in Nominatim).<br>
</p>
<br>
<p><br>
</p>
<div>On 17/04/2023 15:51, Jez Nicholson
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Phil, i'd like to contest the changing of the primary
'name' attribute to Welsh-language. As far as I can see, the
official name is still in English, but now uses some Welsh
words.The Park Authority's press release says, "Brecon Beacons
now officially known as Bannau Brycheiniog National Park". </div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Apr 17, 2023 at
3:26 PM Philip Barnes <<a href="mailto:phil@trigpoint.me.uk" target="_blank">phil@trigpoint.me.uk</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br>
<br>
On 17 April 2023 13:53:33 BST, David Woolley <<a href="mailto:forums@david-woolley.me.uk" target="_blank">forums@david-woolley.me.uk</a>>
wrote:<br>
>On 17/04/2023 09:44, Nathan Case wrote:<br>
>> It's been announced that, from today, that Brecon
Beacons National Park has been renamed to its Welsh version
"Bannau Brycheiniog National Park" only.<br>
<br>
>Looks to me like a politically motivated source of
confusion, and sets a bad precedent for places using non-Roman
scripts. <br>
In this case Welsh uses a Roman script.<br>
<br>
>Presumably the name:en is supposed to be pronounced with
English not Welsh phonetic rules, <br>
I would pronounce it the same a I, and every other speaker of
wenglish (including locals in Shropshire where I now live)
does when dealing with Welsh place names which is just flow
through them naturally.<br>
<br>
>otherwise there are going to be a lot of visitors
mispronouncing it.<br>
That is half the fun of it, when I worked in Leicester we had
a Belvoir Room which was constantly mispronounced by visitors.
Here in Shropshire we have Ercall <br>
<br>
>I think we need a name:en:pronunciation as well.<br>
For this or all Welsh Language place names?<br>
Unlike English, Welsh rules are fairly simple.<br>
><br>
>What would be done if China started insisting that the
capital's airport was 北京 International Airport, in English?<br>
That's a script problem, not language. They have already
changed the English name of their capital from Peking.<br>
<br>
Phil (trigpoint)<br>
<br>
<br>
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