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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi,</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 24/02/2024 16:58, Philip Barnes
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:90da89ce17aa10a3aa242eb9a13a41870f0e3a93.camel@trigpoint.me.uk"><span
style="white-space: pre-wrap">One of my big bugbears of using OSM data to plan holidays is that a lot</span>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">of camp sites are mistagged as caravan sites, which is not helpful to a
camper.</pre>
</blockquote>
<p>After some research, the high-level tagging of
tourism=caravan_site does seem to be used across multiple site
types from huge static_caravan sites to CC/ C&CC "CL's".</p>
<p><span style="white-space: pre-wrap">
</span><span style="white-space: pre-wrap">
</span></p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:90da89ce17aa10a3aa242eb9a13a41870f0e3a93.camel@trigpoint.me.uk">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">A bit of light relief is my overpass query for finding campsites with a
kilometre of a pub. The really important stuff.
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1HMb">https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1HMb</a></pre>
</blockquote>
<p>Can I suggest the query needs maintenance for both the less
specific leisure tagging that seems common, and very specific
usage tagging which might resolve the type issue? Two versions
might be useful to catch the less specific tag usage.<br>
</p>
<p>tourism=camp_site, caravan_site (+ tents=yes), holiday_park (+
tents=yes)</p>
<p>(as opposed to caravans=yes, motorhome_stopover=yes,
static_caravans=yes)</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:90da89ce17aa10a3aa242eb9a13a41870f0e3a93.camel@trigpoint.me.uk">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">A problem which I think goes back to overuse of aerial imagery, over
survey. Finding tents on aerial imagery, even on campsites I am
familiar with is not easy.</pre>
</blockquote>
<p>My limited sample of known camp sites shows a mix of caravans and
grassy areas - I bet many tents pitch and go in a single night so
are less likely to be captured in good flying lighting (e.g.
Beadnell Bay). Larger campsites might also be screened from wind
by trees making.<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:90da89ce17aa10a3aa242eb9a13a41870f0e3a93.camel@trigpoint.me.uk">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Holiday park is a interesting tag, we have certainly camped at these
places, having a heated swimming pool is certainly an attraction. If
you are lucky you may even get real ale in the bar.</pre>
</blockquote>
<p>Nitro-keg may be more prevalent from the large size of the
facilities, but that aside, I've updated several of the NE Coast
large sites I know and have surveyed in the past to holiday_park
(with specific usage tags) as they are so large (200-1100
statics).<br>
</p>
<p><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/905745175/">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/905745175/</a> Haggerston Castle
- Haven is unusual in that they accept tourers<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/100719866/">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/100719866/</a> Seahouses #1 -
static_caravan<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/100719901/">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/100719901/</a> Seahouses #2 -
static_caravan<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/421066891/">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/421066891/</a> Beadnell Hall -
static_caravan<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/741613921/">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/741613921/</a> Beadnell Links -
static_caravan<span style="white-space: pre-wrap">
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/631083680/">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/631083680/</a></span> Beadnell Bay -
static_caravan<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/314943273/">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/314943273/</a> Birling Carrs
Static Caravan Park - static_caravan although less formal<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/114805306/">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/114805306/</a> Amble Links -
static_caravan<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/145175150/">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/145175150/</a> Silver Carrs -
seems to have been bought and gone completely static_caravan<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/100453704/">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/100453704/</a> Cresswell Towers -
Parkdean, all static_caravan<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/100453729/">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/100453729/</a> Golden Sands -
locally owned, static_caravan<span style="white-space: pre-wrap"></span>
keeps expanding<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/88034881/">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/88034881/</a> Church Point -
Parkdean, all static_caravan<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/90149817/">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/90149817/</a> Sandy Bay -
Parkdean, all static_caravan<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/102259021/">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/102259021/</a> Whitley Bay -
Parkdean, all static_caravan</p>
<p>It turns out there's more sites on the coast up here than you'd
think - and I sail and cycle past them regularly. Hope this
doesn't count as a mass edit!<br>
</p>
<p>Most are static_caravan ONLY so tourism=caravan_site must have
been confusing especially without caravans=no
permanent_camping=only.<br>
This likely explains the armchair edits from European mappers -
also planning holidays. </p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:90da89ce17aa10a3aa242eb9a13a41870f0e3a93.camel@trigpoint.me.uk">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Generally I feel the right tag for touring is tourism=camp_site.
Caravan site makes sense for static caravans, the term is obvious in
British English, but possibly confusing to non-native speakers.</pre>
</blockquote>
<p>Agree - camp_site seems more neutral across caravans=yes;
motorhome_stopover=yes; tents=yes<br>
</p>
<p><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/421066870/">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/421066870/</a> Beadnell Bay -
imagery shows vans, but no tents (but seen on ground survey)<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/102255231/">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/102255231/</a> Old Hartley -
classic CC site for vans+motorhomes, but no tents</p>
<p>Interestingly, the CC website also seems to show "Pods" -
guessing at "glamping" sheds. These appeared locally at a farm
looking like a Hobbit village with hexagonal sheds and log burners
(next to the 1950's cow byre).</p>
<p>The "not caravan sites" edits I've seen were indeed made by
non-native English speakers.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<span style="white-space: pre-wrap">
</span>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:90da89ce17aa10a3aa242eb9a13a41870f0e3a93.camel@trigpoint.me.uk">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Some parts of the wiki are a bit strange, for example until I fixed it
the camp site page stated the electric hookups were for caravans. I
have never been refused an electric hookup on a site which had them on
grass pitches.</pre>
</blockquote>
<p>Could be an extra<span style="white-space: pre-wrap"> pitch fee, or metered, but friends use electric fan heaters regardless of van/tent/trailer tent. This was especially the case with the recent Calor Gas fiasco with the withdrawal of several popular cylinder types. How would you charge the kids phones otherwise? :-)</span></p>
<p><span style="white-space: pre-wrap">
</span></p>
<p><span style="white-space: pre-wrap">Thanks and Happy Mapping,
</span></p>
<p><br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">James
--
James Derrick
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:lists@jamesderrick.org">lists@jamesderrick.org</a>, Cramlington, England
I wouldn't be a volunteer if you paid me...
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/James%20Derrick">https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/James%20Derrick</a>
</pre>
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