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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10.11.2012 10:44, Maurizio
Napolitano wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAFYQUmb-+GZ0qePOWoJ1SmT6GZfmJqPa3f0rgu-ZkOsnS3QOCw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<p>Hi Kay <br>
I like your job but i don't like the license used:<br>
- cc by nc sa is not an open data license <br>
- the nc clausole isn't compatible with the idea behind the
openstreetmap project <br>
- the cc-by-sa (and nc) is not compatible with odbl (the new
lincese used in osm)</p>
</blockquote>
<br>
I have spent some time trying to figure out an appropriate license.
If I understand these licenses correctly, I am free to choose the
license for the combined work (my GPS map), and I can chose it to be
NC and SA. OSM data are only a small part of the effort. As far as I
can tell, the ODBL gives me freedom to license the final product
under licenses like CC-BY-NC-SA. Anyone wishing to use the OSM data
themselves can just download them for themselves; I have not applied
any modifications (created an adaptation) to the data - I'm only
putting a layer on top.<br>
<br>
The CTRN is CC-BY and therefore should grant me the same freedom of
choice of license, as it's not SA. I have discussed the license
issues, and I was advised to use CC-BY-NC-SA, because, in theory, it
can hinder people who just download my map and then try and sell it
to people who aren't clever enough to put 'GPS CTRN OSM' into a
google search.<br>
<br>
Nevertheless I am open to suggestions. Are you implying my choice of
license is illegal? Or is it just that you don't like it? The main
work in creating the map was converting the data to a joint format
and writing styles to display the data on the GPS unit (like,
drawing icons etc.), and I think I am entitled to use the license
I've chosen.<br>
<br>
Let me quote from the ODBL, since you say my map is 'not compatible'
with it, and comment on it:<br>
<br>
<h2><strong>As long as you:</strong></h2>
<ul>
<li class="attribute"><em>Attribute:</em> You must attribute any
public use of the database, or works produced from the database,
in the manner specified in the ODbL. For any use or
redistribution of the database, or works produced from it, you
must make clear to others the license of the database and keep
intact any notices on the original database</li>
</ul>
<p>- I attribute by displaying the standard OSM attribution link on
the splash screen of the GPS davice on loading the map. Generally
this is deemed acceptable and the done thing.<br>
</p>
<ul>
<li class="alike"><em>Share-Alike:</em> If you publicly use any
adapted version of this database, or works produced from an
adapted database, you must also offer that adapted database
under the ODbL.</li>
</ul>
<p>- I have not adapted the data; I have only used the data. AFAICT
this does not count as an adaptation. I think my work is a
'combined work', or a 'Collective
Database'. This is defined thusly in the full legal text of the
ODBL:<br>
</p>
<p>“Collective Database” – Means this Database in unmodified form as
part
of a collection of independent databases in themselves that
together are
assembled into a collective whole. A work that constitutes a
Collective
Database will not be considered a Derivative Database.<br>
</p>
<p>Further down it says:<br>
</p>
<p>4.5 Limits of Share Alike. The requirements of Section 4.4 do not
apply
in the following:</p>
<p> a. For the avoidance of doubt, You are not required to
license Collective Databases under this License if You incorporate
this Database or a Derivative Database in the collection, but this
License still applies to this Database or a Derivative Database as
a part of the Collective Database;<br>
</p>
<p>If anyone splits my map to use the OSM tiles themselves (which
are pretty useless outside the context of the styles and TYP I use
in my map) they are free to do so, and the README clearly states
what license the components are under.<br>
</p>
<ul>
<li class="open"><em>Keep open:</em> If you redistribute the
database, or an adapted version of it, then you may use
technological measures that restrict the work (such as DRM) as
long as you also redistribute a version without such measures.</li>
</ul>
<p>- Same here. Since I'm not using an adaptation but a derivative
work, using CC-BY-NC-SA on the final product should be correct.<br>
</p>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAFYQUmb-+GZ0qePOWoJ1SmT6GZfmJqPa3f0rgu-ZkOsnS3QOCw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<p>if your goal is improve openstreetmap, your choiche of license
is not good</p>
</blockquote>
<br>
OSM is improved by contribution of data. To gather these data in the
field, precise GPS maps are a great help. The GPS map creation tools
were essential to get the project off the ground, so that FIX-ME
data etc. could be seen on the GPS device. By offering an OSM layer
on top of the CTRN I am helping the community to map more
efficiently (At least I hope so). I can't see your point. Anyone can
load and use the map, for free. What they do with it is up to them,
as long as they don't violate the license. It doesn't get much more
liberal than that. What do you think would be a 'good' license for a
GPS map?<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAFYQUmb-+GZ0qePOWoJ1SmT6GZfmJqPa3f0rgu-ZkOsnS3QOCw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<p>I any case i respect you for your job and i'm sure that you
know what you can obtain with this license </p>
</blockquote>
<br>
I hope I have been able to clarify why I have licensed the map as I
have. Thank you for your encouragement. I am not a lawyer, and the
whole licensing issue is, to me, a waste of time. Nevertheless, to
allow the community to share my work (rather than just enjoying it
myself), and to do this in a legally proper fashion, I had to spend
days researching and corresponding and creating my own styles
(rather than using ready-made ones, which would have introduced yet
more licensing issues) to satisfy all the license requirements. If
my understanding of the legal matters is wrong, please point out
specifically where you see conflicts.<br>
<br>
The ODBL should have made my work simpler, and when I read through
it carefully I found that there are some subtle changes in the
treatment of derived works (compared to the previous license) which
give me more freedom in licensing the final product than the
previous license.<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAFYQUmb-+GZ0qePOWoJ1SmT6GZfmJqPa3f0rgu-ZkOsnS3QOCw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<p>Ps: next friday and saturday there is the national italian
conference about openstreetmap in Torino :)<br>
You are welcome also with a presentation of your job</p>
</blockquote>
<br>
Thank you for the invitation! But I won't be able to attend, as I'm
not in Italy at all. With a bit of luck, my map will have been used
by some of the community and they may discuss it and spread the word
even if I'm not there.<br>
<br>
Kay<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAFYQUmb-+GZ0qePOWoJ1SmT6GZfmJqPa3f0rgu-ZkOsnS3QOCw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<p> </p>
<div class="gmail_quote">Il giorno 10/nov/2012 09:51, "Kay F.
Jahnke" <_<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:kfj@yahoo.com">kfj@yahoo.com</a>> ha scritto:<br
type="attribution">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Dear members of the ML!<br>
<br>
Since I'm new on the list, let me introduce myself first: my
name is Kay, I've been contributing to OSM for some time now
as user kfj:<br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/kfj" target="_blank">http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/kfj</a><br>
<br>
I am german, but I spend much time in the Piedmont, and this
is where I do my mapping. My italian is clumsy, so I write in
english.<br>
<br>
I have created a GPS vector map of the Piedmont. The map is
intended mainly for hiking and similar outdoor activities; I
have also found it useful for mapping. It is a synopsis of the
CTRN vettoriale 1:10.000 (1991-2005) and OSM data. It's in
garmin image format and runs on my etrex vista hcx, but it
should also run on other GPS units using the same data format.
The map is currently at beta stage, so I have decided to offer
it to a limited audience for evaluation. While I have
processed the whole area covered by the CTRN, I have also made
a smaller map of just the northern tip of the piemontese
territory. This smaller section may serve to establish that
the map will function on your side - the complete map weighs
in at some 300MB, so the amount of traffic needed just to find
out it doesn't work for you after all would be a waste of
resources. You can find the sample map here:<br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://ubuntuone.com/70ApLzr7jlglmg8BVl9ldN"
target="_blank">http://ubuntuone.com/70ApLzr7jlglmg8BVl9ldN</a><br>
<br>
and the complete map here:<br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://ubuntuone.com/6wok0LEk30quYb3ontLs8R"
target="_blank">http://ubuntuone.com/6wok0LEk30quYb3ontLs8R</a><br>
<br>
These files are zip-compressed folders containing the map (in
garmin.img format; I trust you know what to do with such a
file) plus a README and some files picked from the CTRN data.<br>
<br>
If you just want to know more about the technicalities of the
map, you can download the README file separately from here:<br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://ubuntuone.com/0An1JJJwgsrqtm6YleYnBy"
target="_blank">http://ubuntuone.com/0An1JJJwgsrqtm6YleYnBy</a><br>
<br>
I release the maps under CC-BY-NC-SA license, see<br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/"
target="_blank">http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/</a><br>
<br>
I'd appreciate comments - especially concerning the usability
on various GPS devices and also of grave problems with the
maps, but I can't promise to fix reported bugs as my resources
are limited.<br>
<br>
The technical details can be found in the README accompanying
the map. So far I haven't published my own tool chain - a set
of shell scripts and the various styles and TYP file. I intend
to do so eventually, to allow interested parties to emulate
and improve my work, but I'd prefer to have some feedback
first.<br>
<br>
This mail was initially sent to talk-it-piemonte, where it was
suggested that it should be posted to talk-it as well.<br>
<br>
I've had the first reports coming in already, and one piece of
good news is that the map runs on the c62 as well. A word of
caution: if you install the full map after the sample map,
you'll have to delete the sample. Both together won't work, I
assume this is because I used the same product ID for both. On
the etrex which can't handle multiple maps this isn't an
issue. Eventually the sample map will be taken offline.<br>
<br>
Kay F. Jahnke<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Talk-it mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Talk-it@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">Talk-it@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it"
target="_blank">http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it</a><br>
</blockquote>
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