<div dir="ltr">To Whom It May Concern,<div><br></div><div><br></div><div>This is an immediate response upon Paul Norman's request. The following is the translation to local language, Korean. </div><div><br></div><div><b>[Original]</b></div><div><br></div><div><div>Hello,</div><div><br></div><div>In OpenStreetMap you can't copy from copyrighted maps without permission. This includes vworld, which you did here. Continuing to copy like this could lead to a permanent block. Unfortunately I have to remove this copied data.</div><div><br></div><div>Paul Norman</div><div>For the OpenStreetMap Data Working Group</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><b>[Translation]</b></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><font color="#0000ff">안녕하세요.</font></div><div class="gmail_extra"><font color="#0000ff"><br></font></div><div class="gmail_extra"><font color="#0000ff">오픈스트리트맵(OpenStreetMap)에서는 저작권이 있는 지도를 여러분이 허락없이 복사하여 사용할 수는 없습니다. 이 해당 범위에는 여러분이 사용한 Vworld도 포함됩니다. 이와 같은 복사작업을 지속적으로 하게 된다면, 접속이 영구적으로 차단하게 될수도 있습니다. 안타깝지만, 저는 복사된 데이터는 삭제할 수 밖에 없다는 것을 알려 드립니다. </font></div><div class="gmail_extra"><font color="#0000ff"><br></font></div><div class="gmail_extra"><font color="#0000ff">오픈스트리트맵 데이터 워킹 그룹을 대신하여</font></div><div class="gmail_extra"><font color="#0000ff">폴 노먼 (Paul Norman) 드림</font></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><i>// End of Translation</i></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">Additionally, I notice that there are several other emails concerning this issue from Simon, Max and Yongmin... As I mentioned in the previous [Talk-ko] correspondence on Feb 22, I sent out public notices of NOT to use Vworld imagery as basemap source through social network services and my professional networks. Other than this, I don't know how to mitigate this situation. </div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">In Max's email, he suspected such blogs as - </div><div class="gmail_extra"><a href="http://blog.naver.com/PostView.nhn?blogId=8527l&logNo=220919020518">http://blog.naver.com/PostView.nhn?blogId=8527l&logNo=220919020518</a> <br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">The author of this blog added a warning that digitizing Vworld to OSM may violate government regulation which prohibits survey result-derived data not to leave the country. And, he removed the Vworld tile map service (TMS) URL from the blog.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">As for, <a href="http://blog.naver.com/PostView.nhn?blogId=8527l&logNo=220922543377">http://blog.naver.com/PostView.nhn?blogId=8527l&logNo=220922543377</a> </div><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div>The author also mentions the warning, but he still keeps the TMS URL reminding Vworld imagery should not to be traced but to be used for backdrop comparison-purpose only. </div><div><br></div><div>If anyone has an idea of direct actions to take, please advise...</div><div><br></div><div>Best regards,</div><div><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br><div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Kyu-sung Choi, EZMapping (M. +82-10-5414-4374)</font></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">2017-02-25 21:00 GMT+09:00 <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:talk-ko-request@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">talk-ko-request@openstreetmap.org</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Send Talk-ko mailing list submissions to<br>
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or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>
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You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
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<br>
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
than "Re: Contents of Talk-ko digest..."<br>
<br>Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: Use of questionable imagery in Korea (Simon Poole)<br>
2. Re: Use of questionable imagery in Korea (Max)<br>
3. Re: Questionable imagery (Max)<br>
4. Another questionable source (Yongmin H.)<br>
5. Re: Use of questionable imagery in Korea (Paul Norman)<br>
<br><br>---------- 전달된 메시지 ----------<br>From: Simon Poole <<a href="mailto:simon@poole.ch">simon@poole.ch</a>><br>To: <a href="mailto:talk-ko@openstreetmap.org">talk-ko@openstreetmap.org</a><br>Cc: <br>Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 13:08:02 +0100<br>Subject: Re: [Talk-ko] Use of questionable imagery in Korea<br>Just to be clear: a report to the DWG needs neither meetings, roles,<br>
responsibilities or a common language (well it is likely that a report<br>
in English will be easier to understand, but that is about it).<br>
<br>
I realize that there might be a cultural hurdle, but any OSM contributor<br>
can and should, if other avenues have not worked (naturally we all<br>
prefer if things can be fixed locally and need not be escalated), report<br>
use of sources that we do not have permission to use.<br>
<br>
Simon<br>
<br>
<br>
Am 24.02.2017 um 12:53 schrieb Max:<br>
> Paul Norman also has complained that nobody has contacted the DWG.<br>
> <a href="https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues/1464#issuecomment-282268051" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://github.com/<wbr>openstreetmap/openstreetmap-<wbr>website/issues/1464#<wbr>issuecomment-282268051</a><br>
> I guess this is because there is no organizational structure in the<br>
> Korean OSM community (yet). No IRL meetings, no roles, no<br>
> responsiblities, maybe not even a common language. As everyone can see<br>
> discussions on talk-ko happen to be mainly in English, so most mombers<br>
> are "expats" me included, and I am even not any more in Korea.<br>
> my 2ct..<br>
><br>
><br>
> On 2017년 02월 23일 21:00, Simon Poole wrote:<br>
>> Just a couple of notes on the use of the VWorld imagery:<br>
>><br>
>> * when you experience use of questionable sources in a larger way,<br>
>> please inform the Data Working Group (<a href="mailto:data@osmfoundation.org">data@osmfoundation.org</a>) and<br>
>> take action without too much delay. These problems tend to get<br>
>> larger, not smaller with time.<br>
>> * please point out the use of problematic sources via changeset<br>
>> comments to the mappers in question and point out that they are<br>
>> doing nobody a favour.<br>
>> * while not speaking for the DWG, I suspect that due to the touchy<br>
>> nature of this specific source we will want to redact the edits<br>
>> (which removes them from history too) so likely it doesn't make<br>
>> sense to revert them manually. As the changesets in question are<br>
>> easy to identify this should not be a larger problem.<br>
>><br>
>> Simon<br>
>><br>
><br>
> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
> Talk-ko mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org">Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
> <a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.<wbr>org/listinfo/talk-ko</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br><br>---------- 전달된 메시지 ----------<br>From: Max <<a href="mailto:abonnements@revolwear.com">abonnements@revolwear.com</a>><br>To: OpenStreetMap Korea <<a href="mailto:talk-ko@openstreetmap.org">talk-ko@openstreetmap.org</a>><br>Cc: <br>Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 15:37:54 +0100<br>Subject: Re: [Talk-ko] Use of questionable imagery in Korea<br>Simon, off cause you are right. I was not the one finding out about the vworld image usage. I am not patrolling OSM, I don't even know the tools how to do it. I don't feel a responsibility for Korea nor do I feel I can speak for OSM Korea, because it doesn't really exist. I only heard about it here on the list and thought a issue in the ID bugreacker is a good idea.<br>
<br>
However I think this situation is a good opportunity and an experience to learn from. We can create the structures to make sure this can't happen again. Or at least raise the awareness.<br>
<br>
I have a few thoughts. Fist let me try an asessment of the situation for those from outside:<br>
<br>
1. OSM in Korea is in a quite dire state. There are only very few contibutors, the quality of data is low, Most of it still stems from an import that is very old. Village POI are usually so off that it's impossible to know which village has which name without local knowledge. Junctions are imported as lone points, often with steets missing. Bridges too.<br>
The language is a mess, with "English" and Korean mixed in brakets ((and double brackets too)). Half-translations such as "name=새마을11교(Sae Village 11 Gyo)"(sic)<br>
<br>
2. Bing Satellite imagery is not available in big parts of the country.<br>
<a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=16/37.1364/128.2107" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.openstreetmap.org/<wbr>edit#map=16/37.1364/128.2107</a><br>
Mapbox Satellite often only in B/W, cloudy covered or low-res<br>
<a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=13/38.0416/128.2093" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.openstreetmap.org/<wbr>edit#map=13/38.0416/128.2093</a><br>
<br>
3. Commercial Map providers like Naver and Daum on the other hand are extremely detailed, up to date including even streetview from bicycle tracks and such.<br>
<br>
4. The OSM community is very loose to say the least. I don't think anyone knows someone else IRL. There is the mailinglist with some months of 0 emails. It consists largely of expats and most posts are in English.<br>
<br>
---<br>
<br>
In this situation, now we have suddenly new users contributing a lot of detail <a href="http://osmcha.mapbox.com/46332326/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://osmcha.mapbox.com/46332<wbr>326/</a><br>
But they are not reacting on changeset comments or direct messages, maybe because of a language barrier.<br>
<br>
Here my thoughts:<br>
1. Is it somehow possible to not scare those away, now that their contributions will be reverted? Is there a way to say: "Thank you for your contribution, unfortunately we had to delete you edits because of legal problems from derived maps from unlicensed satellite images. But we want you to stay in our community"?<br>
<br>
2. How to address the teenagers and Pokemon Go users with a lot of time and turn their obsession into something that is for the common good. (honestly that is what OSM is for me personally: Procrastination, but with the added bonus of doing something for mankind, compare this to playing candy crush.)<br>
<br>
3. Should we embrace those kids better? Maybe having a booth at a games convention where pokemon users go?<br>
<br>
4. Should OSM Korea make an effort to become some sort of organization?<br>
Or would that lead to more problems even? Around Daegu I noticed that a lot of army bases are mapped, even with their names, which are completely censored on any other service. South Korea government and authorities might not find this funny. This is a very young democracy with the army and secret service having a lot of power. I think i remember a story that Revi has made some experiences here when he was editing wikipedia.<br>
<br>
my 2 1/2 ct.<br>
<br>
m.<br>
<br><br>
On 2017년 02월 24일 13:08, Simon Poole wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
Just to be clear: a report to the DWG needs neither meetings, roles,<br>
responsibilities or a common language (well it is likely that a report<br>
in English will be easier to understand, but that is about it).<br>
<br>
I realize that there might be a cultural hurdle, but any OSM contributor<br>
can and should, if other avenues have not worked (naturally we all<br>
prefer if things can be fixed locally and need not be escalated), report<br>
use of sources that we do not have permission to use.<br>
<br>
Simon<br>
<br>
<br>
Am 24.02.2017 um 12:53 schrieb Max:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
Paul Norman also has complained that nobody has contacted the DWG.<br>
<a href="https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues/1464#issuecomment-282268051" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://github.com/openstreetm<wbr>ap/openstreetmap-website/<wbr>issues/1464#issuecomment-<wbr>282268051</a><br>
I guess this is because there is no organizational structure in the<br>
Korean OSM community (yet). No IRL meetings, no roles, no<br>
responsiblities, maybe not even a common language. As everyone can see<br>
discussions on talk-ko happen to be mainly in English, so most mombers<br>
are "expats" me included, and I am even not any more in Korea.<br>
my 2ct..<br>
<br>
<br>
On 2017년 02월 23일 21:00, Simon Poole wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
Just a couple of notes on the use of the VWorld imagery:<br>
<br>
* when you experience use of questionable sources in a larger way,<br>
please inform the Data Working Group (<a href="mailto:data@osmfoundation.org" target="_blank">data@osmfoundation.org</a>) and<br>
take action without too much delay. These problems tend to get<br>
larger, not smaller with time.<br>
* please point out the use of problematic sources via changeset<br>
comments to the mappers in question and point out that they are<br>
doing nobody a favour.<br>
* while not speaking for the DWG, I suspect that due to the touchy<br>
nature of this specific source we will want to redact the edits<br>
(which removes them from history too) so likely it doesn't make<br>
sense to revert them manually. As the changesets in question are<br>
easy to identify this should not be a larger problem.<br>
<br>
Simon<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Talk-ko mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.or<wbr>g/listinfo/talk-ko</a><br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Talk-ko mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.or<wbr>g/listinfo/talk-ko</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br><br>---------- 전달된 메시지 ----------<br>From: Max <<a href="mailto:abonnements@revolwear.com">abonnements@revolwear.com</a>><br>To: OpenStreetMap Korea <<a href="mailto:talk-ko@openstreetmap.org">talk-ko@openstreetmap.org</a>><br>Cc: <br>Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 15:49:06 +0100<br>Subject: Re: [Talk-ko] Questionable imagery<br>On 2017년 02월 24일 04:25, Changwoo Ryu wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
Questions:<br>
1. How comes? Where is the source? Is there a Korean blog entry, Naver cafe<br>
or other site that shows people how to do it? Can we stop it at the source?<br>
Could someone search this on naver/daum? I could not find it in a quick<br>
attempt, but there must be a source.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
I suspected this:<br>
<br>
<a href="http://blog.naver.com/PostView.nhn?blogId=8527l&logNo=220919020518" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://blog.naver.com/PostView<wbr>.nhn?blogId=8527l&logNo=<wbr>220919020518</a><br>
<br>
This 1-month old blog entry had information on adding VMS as imaginary<br>
source. So I have informed the author about the situation about two<br>
weeks ago, and the author has deleted the info.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
It's still there! on the previous page:<br>
<a href="http://blog.naver.com/PostView.nhn?blogId=8527l&logNo=220922543377" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://blog.naver.com/PostView<wbr>.nhn?blogId=8527l&logNo=<wbr>220922543377</a><br>
At least in the screenshots.<br>
<br>
M<br>
<br><br>---------- 전달된 메시지 ----------<br>From: "Yongmin H." <<a href="mailto:lists@revi.pe.kr">lists@revi.pe.kr</a>><br>To: <a href="mailto:talk-ko@openstreetmap.org">talk-ko@openstreetmap.org</a><br>Cc: <br>Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 01:10:28 +0900<br>Subject: [Talk-ko] Another questionable source<br>re-sending because of my mistake on email address.<br>
----<br>
Hello,<br>
<br>
I was discussing recent imagery issues with my friend, and he said there<br>
are another problematic imagery source he couldn't remember where he saw<br>
it (other than being OSM wiki). I did a quick search and found this<br>
edit[1] in **March 2012** which added a questionable source "National<br>
Spatial Information Portal"[2]. It was there until I removed[3] the<br>
section today. This source is obviously unacceptable for being<br>
copyrighted work of Government of Republic of Korea. Simon said about<br>
pointing them "it's no good" via changeset comment but I don't think<br>
it's useful here as the information was available since 2012, and I<br>
can't even assume how many changesets are based on this source.<br>
<br>
I have no idea where to start, so I'm starting by sending an email to<br>
talk-ko and DWG.<br>
<br>
[1]:<br>
<a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=WikiProject_Korea&diff=751180&oldid=prev" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://wiki.openstreetmap.<wbr>org/w/index.php?title=<wbr>WikiProject_Korea&diff=751180&<wbr>oldid=prev</a><br>
[2]: <a href="http://www.nsdi.go.kr/?menuno=3085" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.nsdi.go.kr/?menuno=<wbr>3085</a><br>
[3]:<br>
<a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=WikiProject_Korea&type=revision&diff=1433558&oldid=1430516" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://wiki.openstreetmap.<wbr>org/w/index.php?title=<wbr>WikiProject_Korea&type=<wbr>revision&diff=1433558&oldid=<wbr>1430516</a><br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
--<br>
Yongmin Hong<br>
<a href="https://wp.revi.blog" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://wp.revi.blog</a><br>
Please note that this address is list-only address and any non-mailing<br>
list mails will be treated as spam.<br>
Please use <a href="https://encrypt.to/0x947f156f16250de39788c3c35b625da5beff197a" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://encrypt.to/<wbr>0x947f156f16250de39788c3c35b62<wbr>5da5beff197a</a><br>
<br><br>---------- 전달된 메시지 ----------<br>From: Paul Norman <<a href="mailto:penorman@mac.com">penorman@mac.com</a>><br>To: <a href="mailto:talk-ko@openstreetmap.org">talk-ko@openstreetmap.org</a><br>Cc: <br>Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 02:47:08 -0800<br>Subject: Re: [Talk-ko] Use of questionable imagery in Korea<br>On 2/23/2017 12:00 PM, Simon Poole wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
while not speaking for the DWG, I suspect that due to the touchy nature of this specific source we will want to redact the edits (which removes them from history too) so likely it doesn't make sense to revert them manually. As the changesets in question are easy to identify this should not be a larger problem.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Unfortunately, this is correct. It looks like it'll be 133 users and 2257 changesets. I'm planning to leave messages in changeset discussions on their most recent changesets.<br>
<br>
Could someone translate this to Korean for me?<br>
<br>
Hello,<br>
<br>
In OpenStreetMap you can't copy from copyrighted maps without permission. This includes vworld, which you did here. Continuing to copy like this could lead to a permanent block. Unfortunately I have to remove this copied data.<br>
<br>
Paul Norman<br>
For the OpenStreetMap Data Working Group<br>
<br><br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Talk-ko mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org">Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.<wbr>org/listinfo/talk-ko</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div></div>