<div dir="ltr">Oppps, Please forgot it. I sent a message into wrong thread.<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2017-03-05 18:13 GMT+09:00 느림보 <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:nrimbo@gmail.com" target="_blank">nrimbo@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">FYI,<br>
<br>
</span>공공 용어의 영어 번역 및 표기 지침<span lang="EN-US"> (English translation and marking
instructions for public terms) was published by </span>문화체육관광부<span lang="EN-US">
(Ministry of Culture, Sports and Tourism).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Reference: <a href="http://www.law.go.kr/LSW/admRulLsInfoP.do?admRulSeq=2100000035680" target="_blank">http://www.law.go.kr/LSW/<wbr>admRulLsInfoP.do?admRulSeq=<wbr>2100000035680</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">문화재명칭 영문표기 기준 규칙<span lang="EN-US"> (English marking instruction
of culture properties) was published by </span>문화재청<span lang="EN-US"> (Culture
Heritage Administration).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Reference: <a href="http://www.law.go.kr/admRulLsInfoP.do?admRulSeq=2100000005900" target="_blank">http://www.law.go.kr/<wbr>admRulLsInfoP.do?admRulSeq=<wbr>2100000005900</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">I updated instructions into Google Drive
because they were saved as HWP files. (A file-type for a commercial word processor),
but I replaced then into web pages because I found alternates</span></p>
</div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2017-03-01 16:13 GMT+09:00 Changwoo Ryu <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:cwryu@debian.org" target="_blank">cwryu@debian.org</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">"한국어 (English)" form should be corrected. I thought about some<br>
automatic mass editing if possible.<br>
<div class="m_1823865360755379586HOEnZb"><div class="m_1823865360755379586h5"><br>
<br>
2017-03-01 0:18 GMT+09:00 느림보 <<a href="mailto:nrimbo@gmail.com" target="_blank">nrimbo@gmail.com</a>>:<br>
> I’m new comer to OSM community. I joined the community after I noticed my<br>
> village was not displayed on Pokémon GO. I tried to join several years ago,<br>
> but I hesitated because I couldn’t find good guidance for editing. I didn’t<br>
> want to follow non-official source of guidance like blog posts, and gave up<br>
> soon.<br>
><br>
> At this present, I don’t understand guidance for Korean region clearly. I’m<br>
> just writing down my understanding and my rules on my profile page believing<br>
> someone will correct my mistake if she/he would see it.<br>
><br>
> I think some complexity come from name tags. There are many name tags for<br>
> one Korean POI -- name, name:ko, name:en, name:ko_hanja, name:ko_rm. As Max<br>
> pointed out, some name tag has English and Korean such as "name=새마을11교 (Sae<br>
> Village 11 Gyo)". I understood the usage of “한국어 (English)” came from<br>
> technical reason and the rule was changed “한국어” on Oct. 2014 (Source:<br>
> <a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Korea_Naming_Convention" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/<wbr>wiki/Korea_Naming_Convention</a>.)<br>
><br>
> However, many POIs are remained with “한국어 (English)” without written<br>
> guidance (deleted and/or revised). In this reason, the first thing I did was<br>
> searching history of naming rules. I don’t know why the community left “한국어<br>
> (English)” style until now, but believe such old-styles are fixed<br>
> immediately and automatically. I could write a bot if the community allows.<br>
><br>
> I have doubt on name:ko_rm and name:ko_hanja. Many ko_rm field was<br>
> transliterated mechanically from its name without concern exceptions defined<br>
> in Revised Romanization of Korean. Then how about hand over Romanization of<br>
> Korean to renderer if need? By the way, is useful for foreigners? Is there a<br>
> renderer displaying ko_rm? As a Korean, I don’t know advantage of managing<br>
> ko_rm field manually. Related this field, I saw deleting line on ko_rm and<br>
> suggestion of ko_Latn in<br>
> <a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Names#Localization" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/<wbr>wiki/Names#Localization</a> page, but it isn’t<br>
> harmonized with other wiki pages.<br>
><br>
> As well as, I suggest to modify ‘name:en’ to cover Revised Romanize<br>
> non-composite place name. Many POIs’ name:en tags have Romanize Korean only,<br>
> but it is not written as guidance. It may be arguable because strictly<br>
> Romanized Korean is not English. However such exception will help foreigners<br>
> rather than omitting or writing in tag:ko_rm tag.<br>
><br>
> p.s. I used 한국어 in this discussion to represent Korean written in Hangeul.<br>
><br>
><br>
> 2017-02-24 23:37 GMT+09:00 Max <<a href="mailto:abonnements@revolwear.com" target="_blank">abonnements@revolwear.com</a>>:<br>
>><br>
>> Simon, off cause you are right. I was not the one finding out about the<br>
>> vworld image usage. I am not patrolling OSM, I don't even know the tools how<br>
>> to do it. I don't feel a responsibility for Korea nor do I feel I can speak<br>
>> for OSM Korea, because it doesn't really exist. I only heard about it here<br>
>> on the list and thought a issue in the ID bugreacker is a good idea.<br>
>><br>
>> However I think this situation is a good opportunity and an experience to<br>
>> learn from. We can create the structures to make sure this can't happen<br>
>> again. Or at least raise the awareness.<br>
>><br>
>> I have a few thoughts. Fist let me try an asessment of the situation for<br>
>> those from outside:<br>
>><br>
>> 1. OSM in Korea is in a quite dire state. There are only very few<br>
>> contibutors, the quality of data is low, Most of it still stems from an<br>
>> import that is very old. Village POI are usually so off that it's impossible<br>
>> to know which village has which name without local knowledge. Junctions are<br>
>> imported as lone points, often with steets missing. Bridges too.<br>
>> The language is a mess, with "English" and Korean mixed in brakets ((and<br>
>> double brackets too)). Half-translations such as "name=새마을11교(Sae Village 11<br>
>> Gyo)"(sic)<br>
>><br>
>> 2. Bing Satellite imagery is not available in big parts of the country.<br>
>> <a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=16/37.1364/128.2107" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.openstreetmap.org/<wbr>edit#map=16/37.1364/128.2107</a><br>
>> Mapbox Satellite often only in B/W, cloudy covered or low-res<br>
>> <a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=13/38.0416/128.2093" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.openstreetmap.org/<wbr>edit#map=13/38.0416/128.2093</a><br>
>><br>
>> 3. Commercial Map providers like Naver and Daum on the other hand are<br>
>> extremely detailed, up to date including even streetview from bicycle tracks<br>
>> and such.<br>
>><br>
>> 4. The OSM community is very loose to say the least. I don't think anyone<br>
>> knows someone else IRL. There is the mailinglist with some months of 0<br>
>> emails. It consists largely of expats and most posts are in English.<br>
>><br>
>> ---<br>
>><br>
>> In this situation, now we have suddenly new users contributing a lot of<br>
>> detail <a href="http://osmcha.mapbox.com/46332326/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://osmcha.mapbox.com/46332<wbr>326/</a><br>
>> But they are not reacting on changeset comments or direct messages, maybe<br>
>> because of a language barrier.<br>
>><br>
>> Here my thoughts:<br>
>> 1. Is it somehow possible to not scare those away, now that their<br>
>> contributions will be reverted? Is there a way to say: "Thank you for your<br>
>> contribution, unfortunately we had to delete you edits because of legal<br>
>> problems from derived maps from unlicensed satellite images. But we want you<br>
>> to stay in our community"?<br>
>><br>
>> 2. How to address the teenagers and Pokemon Go users with a lot of time<br>
>> and turn their obsession into something that is for the common good.<br>
>> (honestly that is what OSM is for me personally: Procrastination, but with<br>
>> the added bonus of doing something for mankind, compare this to playing<br>
>> candy crush.)<br>
>><br>
>> 3. Should we embrace those kids better? Maybe having a booth at a games<br>
>> convention where pokemon users go?<br>
>><br>
>> 4. Should OSM Korea make an effort to become some sort of organization?<br>
>> Or would that lead to more problems even? Around Daegu I noticed that a<br>
>> lot of army bases are mapped, even with their names, which are completely<br>
>> censored on any other service. South Korea government and authorities might<br>
>> not find this funny. This is a very young democracy with the army and secret<br>
>> service having a lot of power. I think i remember a story that Revi has made<br>
>> some experiences here when he was editing wikipedia.<br>
>><br>
>> my 2 1/2 ct.<br>
>><br>
>> m.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On 2017년 02월 24일 13:08, Simon Poole wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> Just to be clear: a report to the DWG needs neither meetings, roles,<br>
>>> responsibilities or a common language (well it is likely that a report<br>
>>> in English will be easier to understand, but that is about it).<br>
>>><br>
>>> I realize that there might be a cultural hurdle, but any OSM contributor<br>
>>> can and should, if other avenues have not worked (naturally we all<br>
>>> prefer if things can be fixed locally and need not be escalated), report<br>
>>> use of sources that we do not have permission to use.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Simon<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> Am 24.02.2017 um 12:53 schrieb Max:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Paul Norman also has complained that nobody has contacted the DWG.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> <a href="https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues/1464#issuecomment-282268051" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://github.com/openstreetm<wbr>ap/openstreetmap-website/<wbr>issues/1464#issuecomment-<wbr>282268051</a><br>
>>>> I guess this is because there is no organizational structure in the<br>
>>>> Korean OSM community (yet). No IRL meetings, no roles, no<br>
>>>> responsiblities, maybe not even a common language. As everyone can see<br>
>>>> discussions on talk-ko happen to be mainly in English, so most mombers<br>
>>>> are "expats" me included, and I am even not any more in Korea.<br>
>>>> my 2ct..<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> On 2017년 02월 23일 21:00, Simon Poole wrote:<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Just a couple of notes on the use of the VWorld imagery:<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> * when you experience use of questionable sources in a larger way,<br>
>>>>> please inform the Data Working Group (<a href="mailto:data@osmfoundation.org" target="_blank">data@osmfoundation.org</a>) and<br>
>>>>> take action without too much delay. These problems tend to get<br>
>>>>> larger, not smaller with time.<br>
>>>>> * please point out the use of problematic sources via changeset<br>
>>>>> comments to the mappers in question and point out that they are<br>
>>>>> doing nobody a favour.<br>
>>>>> * while not speaking for the DWG, I suspect that due to the touchy<br>
>>>>> nature of this specific source we will want to redact the edits<br>
>>>>> (which removes them from history too) so likely it doesn't make<br>
>>>>> sense to revert them manually. As the changesets in question are<br>
>>>>> easy to identify this should not be a larger problem.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Simon<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
>>>> Talk-ko mailing list<br>
>>>> <a href="mailto:Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
>>>> <a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.or<wbr>g/listinfo/talk-ko</a><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
>>> Talk-ko mailing list<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
>>> <a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.or<wbr>g/listinfo/talk-ko</a><br>
>>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
>> Talk-ko mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
>> <a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.or<wbr>g/listinfo/talk-ko</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
> Talk-ko mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
> <a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.or<wbr>g/listinfo/talk-ko</a><br>
><br>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Talk-ko mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.or<wbr>g/listinfo/talk-ko</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>