Hi guys,<div><br><div>Pardon me if I do not make any sense. </div><div><br></div><div>Whether a street is paved or not will change over time and we may not be able to update the info regularly. If possible, we should only use tag for that. </div>
<div><br></div><div>I would rather categorize the roads by lanes and go with particular attributes. Naming could be done accordingly.</div><div><br></div><div>The tags in italics are not necessary. </div><div><br></div><div>
How about:</div><div><br></div><div>For urban roads, </div><div>categories:</div><div>1. Multi-lane road,<i> tag footpath, tag traffic lights??</i> (eg. baneshwor to maitighar)</div><div>2. Two lane road, tag footpath <i> tag traffic lights??</i> (eg. thapathali area?)</div>
<div>3. Two lane road, tag no_footpath, tag traffic lights?? (eg. airport to sinamangal)</div><div><br></div><div>4. One lane road, access two cars, one or two way tag</div><div>5. One lane road, access one car, one or two way tag</div>
<div><br></div><div>6. No lane road,<i> access bike/bicycle</i>, tag restricted (eg. durbar square, shankhamool bridge)</div><div>7. No lane road, <i>access bike/bicycle</i>, tag crowded (eg. ason)</div><div>8. No lane road, <i>access bike/bicycle</i>, tag narrow (gallis)</div>
<div><br></div><div>rajeev</div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 5:44 PM, Sakar Pudasaini <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:sakar@galligalli.org" target="_blank">sakar@galligalli.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">For the moment I say we favor proliferation. And then we go through a round of culling. So I've added a Type A1 and Type C1 to accommodate your suggestions. Perhaps you could type out your thoughts more "formally" to give us a working definition on the A's since that is unclear to me.<br>
<br><div><div class="im">Type A: Roads that connect major cities and designed to lead
traffic out of, into or around a town. These streets are relative broad
and though they maybe potholed occasionally, regular resources are
committed to keep them in good shape. <br><br></div>Type A1:<br></div><div class="im">
<div><br></div><div>Type B: Roads with in the city that deal with (or
are capable of dealing with) significant volumes of traffic. These
roads are designed for motor vehicles AND regular resources are
committed to their upkeep. I'm thinking Ram Shah Path, the gausala road
running from Chabil Chowk to Baneshwor Chowk, Pasupati Sadak (running
from Kamalpokhari towards the airport)</div>
<div><br></div></div><div><div class="im">Type C: Roads with in the city that are designed
for Motor Vehicles BUT do not see regular upkeep. There are side streets
that accommodate 2 way traffic and might have been pitched at some
point but now are maybe half pitched at the best. These often tend to be
connectors between two Type B roads.<br><br></div>Type C1: Like a Type C but an only accommodate one car at a time in either direction (though the road itself might be a two way) <br></div><div class="im HOEnZb">
<div><br></div><div>Type D: Unpaved roads intended for cars.</div><div><br></div></div><div class="im HOEnZb"><div>Type E: unpaved or paved galli's that will not fit cars but motorcycles and cycles can go through them</div>
<div><br></div></div><div class="im HOEnZb"><div>
Type F: roads in heavily populated areas that could fit cars but
where street vendors and pedestrians hold sway e.g. Ason. This is the
"living_street" I think. <br></div> <br><br></div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 8:28 PM, Prabhas Pokharel <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:prabhas.pokharel@gmail.com" target="_blank">prabhas.pokharel@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Sakar, I like that. Lets go with it a bit.<div><br></div><div>What about the difference Bibek and I were chatting about... roads which are otherwise Type C, but two cars side by side could not fit on them. Lots of roads in the Purano Baneshwor / Gaushala area, in Patan area, etc. Do you think that is worth separating out?</div>
<div><br></div><div>Finally, on the type A side, is there a difference between the new Koteshwor highway, and type A (I think ring road at one end of this and Mahendra Highway on the other)? I could go either way on this, probably merging them into the <div>
<div><br>
<br>On Monday, July 2, 2012, Sakar Pudasaini wrote:<br></div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div>Yeah. Super west centric... think I've seen a total of 1 road sign in the last month. Also the idea of a cycle path, so designated by law is pretty much laughable. I have not tried it but I imagine I could take a damn horse anywhere I really pleased... ride it all the way to china down the highway :-) <div>
<br></div><div>May I make a suggestion. How about we flip the script and first try to agree on the types of roads we think exist in Nepal, then decide what is the appropriate tagging for it. It maybe that two of our types go into the same tag, or it may be that a tag that exists is irrelevant for Nepal etc. Also I agree with Prabhas' assessment but I do think we should try to norm within at least the rest of the subcontinent, don't imagine their situations is that different from ours. And norms are nice when they can be established. </div>
<div><br></div><div>Here is my attempt at a few, this is going to be Kathmandu-centric since I have not had a chance to explore outside the valley for a while:</div><div><br></div><div>1. Type A: Roads that connect major cities and designed to lead traffic out of, into or around a town. These streets are relative broad and though they maybe potholed occasionally, regular resources are committed to keep them in good shape. E.g. Arniko highway, ring road </div>
<div><br></div><div>2. Type B: Roads with in the city that deal with (or are capable of dealing with) significant volumes of traffic. These roads are designed for motor vehicles AND regular resources are committed to their upkeep. I'm thinking Ram Shah Path, the gausala road running from Chabil Chowk to Baneshwor Chowk, Pasupati Sadak (running from Kamalpokhari towards the airport)</div>
<div><br></div><div>3. Type C: Roads with in the city that are designed for Motor Vehicles BUT do not see regular upkeep. There are side streets that accommodate 2 way traffic and might have been pitched at some point but now are maybe half pitched at the best. These often tend to be connectors between two Type B roads.</div>
<div><br></div><div>4. Type D: Unpaved roads intended for cars.</div><div><br></div><div>5. Type E: unpaved or paved galli's that will not fit cars but motorcycles and cycles can go through them</div><div><br></div><div>
6. Type F: roads in heavily populated areas that could fit cars but where street vendors and pedestrians hold sway e.g. Ason. This is the "living_street" I think. </div><div><br></div></div></div><div><div><div>
I struggled with B and C. They could very well be the same thing, but as someone who rides a motorbike around town they feel very different. <br>
<div><br></div></div></div><div>-Sakar<br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div>On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 7:50 AM, Prabhas Pokharel <span dir="ltr"><<a>prabhas.pokharel@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
</div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div>
Hmm, not sure that I have more clarity in my head of how to tag things now. There are also highway=service and highway=path that we could pair with motorcycle=yes.<div><br></div><div>In general, I think the rules that are built are very western centric, as you can see in the images in the path controversy (<a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Path_controversy" target="_blank">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Path_controversy</a><span style="padding-right:16px;width:16px;min-height:16px"></span>). So the guidelines we build for ourselves should be a result of creative interpretation of norms in place in other places of the world rather than trying to find the exact meaning based on pictures that one is very unlikely to see in Nepal.<span><font color="#888888"><br>
<br>--p</font></span><div><div><br><br>On Saturday, June 30, 2012, <a>bibekshrestha@gmail.com</a> wrote:<br><blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
For living_street vs residential road, the first paragraph here <a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dresidential" target="_blank">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dresidential</a><span style="padding-right:16px;width:16px;min-height:16px"></span> kind of explains the difference. Atleast the image on the right side does not look like a living_street.<br clear="all">
--<br>Bibek Shrestha<br>bibekshrestha at gmail dot com<br>Twitter: <a href="http://twitter.com/bibstha" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/bibstha</a><span style="padding-right:16px;width:16px;min-height:16px"></span><br>
<div>"<span style="line-height:19px;font-size:13px;font-family:sans-serif">You mustn't be afraid to dream a little bigger, darling.", Eames to Arthur, Inception 2010</span></div>
<br>
<br><br><div>On Sat, Jun 30, 2012 at 4:55 PM, <a>bibekshrestha@gmail.com</a> <span dir="ltr"><<a>bibekshrestha@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>The following references try to clarify the confusion, but only to some extent.</div><a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:highway%3Dpedestrian#footway_vs_pedestrian" target="_blank">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:highway%3Dpedestrian#footway_vs_pedestrian</a><span style="padding-right:16px;width:16px;min-height:16px"></span><div>
<a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Path_controversy" target="_blank">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Path_controversy</a><span style="padding-right:16px;width:16px;min-height:16px"></span></div>
<div><br></div><div>--</div><div><div>Bibek Shrestha<br>bibekshrestha at gmail dot com<br>
Twitter: <a href="http://twitter.com/bibstha" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/bibstha</a><span style="padding-right:16px;width:16px;min-height:16px"></span><br>
<div>"<span style="line-height:19px;font-size:13px;font-family:sans-serif">You mustn't be afraid to dream a little bigger, darling.", Eames to Arthur, Inception 2010</span></div>
<br>
<br><br></div><div><div><div>On Sat, Jun 30, 2012 at 4:54 PM, <a>bibekshrestha@gmail.com</a> <span dir="ltr"><<a>bibekshrestha@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><br clear="all">--<br>Bibek Shrestha<br>bibekshrestha at gmail dot com<br>Twitter: <a href="http://twitter.com/bibstha" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/bibstha</a><span style="padding-right:16px;width:16px;min-height:16px"></span><br>
<div>"<span style="line-height:19px;font-size:13px;font-family:sans-serif">You mustn't be afraid to dream a little bigger, darling.", Eames to Arthur, Inception 2010</span></div>
<br>
<br><br></div><div><div>On Sat, Jun 30, 2012 at 8:45 AM, Prabhas Pokharel <span dir="ltr"><<a>prabhas.pokharel@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Bibek, thanks for making a first draft of this important document. One minor suggestion: should we think of something that is very similar to highway=pedestrian, but streets that are accessible to motorcycles? As we know, there are a lot of places like this in Kathmandu, does dual tagging of<div>
highway=pedestrian and motorcyle=yes make sense?</div></blockquote></div><div>I think we agree on motorcycle=yes on this but I'm not too sure whether we use highway=footway or highway=pedestrian. (Which Sakar mentioned in his reply). </div>
<div><br></div><div>I would personally prefer highway=pedestrian for the following criteria.</div><div>a. if the road is as wide enough as a normal road but people use it only for walking (usually city centers, squares, etc),</div>
<div><br></div><div>highway=footpath</div><div>b. The narrow gallis and shortcuts which cannot have a car (sth bigger than a maruti may be because maruti usually can squeeze in any kind of road) move through it. Like the gallis in Bhaktapur or Kathmandu.</div>
<div>
<div><br></div><blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div> </div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div><br></div><div>The trickiest part when tagging that I come across is deciding between highway=residential and highway=living_street Its usually very diffi</div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div>
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