And final thought.... we might be able to piggy back our primary/secondary/residential/service classifications using the road names. Road names end in things like (here are the ones I observed): sadak, marga, galli + (an outshoot of a marga, like the 660/x Araniko Marga example I gave)<div>
<div><br></div><div>Likely, Sadak should be either a primary or a secondary road; marga should be residential, and galli should be service or pedestrian.</div><div><br><div><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Aug 25, 2012 at 10:07 AM, Prabhas Pokharel <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:prabhas.pokharel@gmail.com" target="_blank">prabhas.pokharel@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>I'm happy with the proposition against a living_street: makes things simple + pedestrian is the right tag for durbar squares, and by analogy it makes sense.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Had a question about gallis though (some of which are quite 'long' and provide almost through access to motorcycles) that I have put in the "<a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Nepal:Roads#Points_of_discussion" target="_blank">Points of discussions</a>" of the talk page, and copied below:</div>
<div><br></div><div><ul style="line-height:19.200000762939453px;list-style-type:square;font-size:13px;font-family:sans-serif;margin:0.3em 0px 0px 1.5em;padding:0px"><li style="margin-bottom:0.1em">
>From this description, gallis can either be highway=service or highway=pedestrian. Some gallis are used for through access and are almost residential "roads" for motorcycles, others are not. Should we use highway=service for the former and highway=pedestrian for the latter?</li>
</ul><ul style="line-height:19.200000762939453px;list-style-type:square;font-size:13px;font-family:sans-serif;margin:0.3em 0px 0px 1.5em;padding:0px"><li style="margin-bottom:0.1em">lanes = 1: in the US context, lanes = 1 means one lane per direction (unless it is a one-way road). Our definition is counting lanes in both directions. Is this consistent with the European standards (ie, on what most routing apps with think)?</li>
</ul></div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 3:01 PM, <a href="mailto:bibekshrestha@gmail.com" target="_blank">bibekshrestha@gmail.com</a> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:bibekshrestha@gmail.com" target="_blank">bibekshrestha@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Some of the fantastic roads of Khokana, if you have been in one of these you know you've been just put into a different century.<div>
<a href="http://www.trektrips.net/information/226/khokana.html" target="_blank">http://www.trektrips.net/information/226/khokana.html</a></div>
<div><br></div><div>Thoughts on the two roads? I'd suggest we go with highway=residential for these too. </div><div>I mention these just to make it clear that we can avoid living_street.</div><div><br></div><div>Argument for highway=residential: These roads are primarily there to provide access to houses.</div>
<div>A template like highway=residential; motorcycle=yes; bicycle=yes; lanes=1; motorcar=yes/no depending upon if that can pass through say a maruti can sufficiently tag these streets for routing purposes.</div><div><br>
</div>
<div>Comments?</div><div><div>--<br>Bibek Shrestha<br>bibekshrestha at gmail dot com<br>Twitter: <a href="http://twitter.com/bibstha" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/bibstha</a><br><div>"<span style="line-height:19px;font-size:13px;font-family:sans-serif">You mustn't be afraid to dream a little bigger, darling.", Eames to Arthur, Inception 2010</span></div>
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<br><br></div><div><div><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 8:41 PM, <a href="mailto:bibekshrestha@gmail.com" target="_blank">bibekshrestha@gmail.com</a> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:bibekshrestha@gmail.com" target="_blank">bibekshrestha@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi Sakar,<div><br><div>IMO, highway=pedestrian describes the roads in and around Ason, Patan-KTM-Bhaktapur durbar square more precisely than highway=living_street.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Both have limitations to vehicular movement. In pedestrian streets, it is because these streets are used specially by people to move, in around crowded market area. The vehicular movement is caused either by restrictions imposed, may be vehicles are allowed at certain times only, and that too for offloading goods. You can check out more description at <a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dpedestrian" target="_blank">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dpedestrian</a></div>
<div><br></div><div>The restrictions in living_street are not just because of possible people walking, but because these area allows for instance kids to play on the streets, people could walk here more freely because they know the streets are sparsely used by cars. IMO it means cars are free to take these streets but they have to be extra attentive. </div>
<div><br></div><div>I cannot think of any examples for living_street in Nepal to be honest. Most of them could be categorized into pedestrians. May be the quiet streets around Bungamati, Khokana...</div><div><br></div><div>
I know there is no clear cut difference here, for simplicity I would propose we use pedestrian if vehicular movement is highly constrained by cars.</div><div>Otherwise it is a residential road. Let's completely avoid living_street. Makes live much more simpler.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Cheers</div><div>--<br>Bibek Shrestha<br>bibekshrestha at gmail dot com<br>Twitter: <a href="http://twitter.com/bibstha" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/bibstha</a><br><div>"<span style="line-height:19px;font-size:13px;font-family:sans-serif">You mustn't be afraid to dream a little bigger, darling.", Eames to Arthur, Inception 2010</span></div>
<div><div>
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<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 8:06 PM, Sakar Pudasaini <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:sakar@galligalli.org" target="_blank">sakar@galligalli.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Simple is good but not having a separate classification the streets around Ason and like areas seems like a step too far. They are in a conceptual category other than "residential"... they are crowded with pedestrians, with road side vendors etc who actually have priority over cars. From a purely practical perspective I'd want routing tools to avoid those kinds of streets... I mean you could push through those areas with a car, I've seen it done, but that does not make it a good idea.<div>
<br></div><div><a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Living_street" target="_blank">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Living_street</a> says "<span style="line-height:19.200000762939453px;font-size:13px;font-family:sans-serif">Routing and navigation software </span><i style="line-height:19.200000762939453px;font-size:13px;font-family:sans-serif">might</i><span><font face="sans-serif"><span style="line-height:19.200000762939453px"> try to avoid such areas when navigating cars." So if we going to try and fit our requirements to western categories, this might be the best one we have. Unless of course there is an additional attribute that </span></font><font face="sans-serif"><span style="line-height:19.185184478759766px">achieves the same effect.</span></font></span><span style="line-height:19.200000762939453px;font-family:sans-serif"> </span></div>
<div><span style="line-height:19.200000762939453px;font-size:13px;font-family:sans-serif"><br></span></div><div><span style="line-height:19.200000762939453px;font-size:13px;font-family:sans-serif">-s</span></div>
<div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div>On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 7:00 AM, Rajeev Amatya <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:rajeevamatya@gmail.com" target="_blank">rajeevamatya@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
</div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div>
Hi guys,<div>Bibek and I worked on the road standards. We want to finalize it by Friday. It would be a nice idea to make it as simple as possible, while covering most of the common roads of Kathmandu and Nepal. We also talked to OSMers in Munich and got some good feedbacks from them. Living Street is a very European concept and probably does not apply to Nepal. Might be a good idea to not use it at all. Also, most of the routing apps are based upon European roads, so it would be a good idea to try to comply as much as possible so that we use them with minimum code change. </div>
<div><a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Nepal:Roads#Local_Roads" target="_blank">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Nepal:Roads#Local_Roads</a>
</div><div><br></div><div>Please have a look and start a discussion if you don't agree. But let's get it done quickly. Thanks a lot.</div><span><font color="#888888"><div>Rajeev</div>
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