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It's nice to at least finally hear some explanations from their
side. But it does not really solve any of the issues.<br>
<br>
Having the same establishments and landmarks is not problematic per
se, but there seems to be solid evidence that their hired
third-party is (at the very
least partially) providing them with POIs copied from Google Maps. <br>
<br>
Just as an example, here's a identical arbitrarily capitalized name
in the same arbitrary location:<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/8873689562">https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/8873689562</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://goo.gl/maps/QzyJqMRShrnCn1vh8">https://goo.gl/maps/QzyJqMRShrnCn1vh8</a><br>
<br>
Jan Rei Gallardo's edits are a significant improvement compared to
the previous para mappers. He seems to at least make sure to place
nodes within buildings and add proper tags, this makes it much more
difficult to verify if all of the data or just part of it is copied.<br>
<br>
Para mappers in Davao Region (Abby Oavad Tagum, Dhadz and
ortegajovan41) were a lot less careful. Out of about 30 analyzed
POIs every single one is obviously copied from Google. <br>
<br>
Shop without tags with identical wrong coordinates:<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/8357629670">https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/8357629670</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://goo.gl/maps/qkXyyCtMoWkQR5qaA">https://goo.gl/maps/qkXyyCtMoWkQR5qaA</a><br>
<br>
Non-existent office in the middle of road:<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/8654016808">https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/8654016808</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://goo.gl/maps/iZ3LvvWKB2fbnHEx5">https://goo.gl/maps/iZ3LvvWKB2fbnHEx5</a><br>
<br>
Same wrong location, school within existing school:<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/773674277">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/773674277</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://goo.gl/maps/hvDMT5ofVRfUUAtc9">https://goo.gl/maps/hvDMT5ofVRfUUAtc9</a><br>
<br>
Church and mosque within same building:<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/8367729778">https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/8367729778</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/8367763632">https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/8367763632</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://goo.gl/maps/SyhwJRQWE6Nw7yd86">https://goo.gl/maps/SyhwJRQWE6Nw7yd86</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://goo.gl/maps/HHB8JMJoAXjGYaoC8">https://goo.gl/maps/HHB8JMJoAXjGYaoC8</a><br>
<br>
I'm also curious what the edits in Nigeria are about. Jan Rei
Gallardo is already the third para mapper (out of the 6 that were
identified so far) that is editing in Enugu Area. <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2021-07-02 15:02, Erwin Olario
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:CAPmGdL8PF-Vre80bwOBuC4geZsZCB3tsuPsJh9u-wNBGUDkBUw@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">CC'ing
the list of their latest response: <span style="background:unset;background-blend-mode:unset;border:unset;border-radius:unset;display:unset;float:unset;clear:unset;vertical-align:unset;overflow:unset;isolation:unset;break-after:unset;break-before:unset;break-inside:unset;columns:unset;column-fill:unset;column-rule:unset;column-span:unset;opacity:unset;mix-blend-mode:unset;font:unset;font-synthesis:unset;writing-mode:unset;text-orientation:unset;image-orientation:unset;border-collapse:unset;empty-cells:unset;caption-side:unset;border-spacing:unset;color:unset;text-transform:unset;text-indent:unset;word-break:unset;text-justify:unset;text-align-last:unset;text-align:unset;letter-spacing:unset;word-spacing:unset;white-space:pre;text-emphasis:unset;line-break:unset;text-combine-upright:unset;text-underline-position:unset;list-style:unset;quotes:unset;margin:unset;outline:unset;padding:unset;width:unset;min-width:unset;max-width:unset;height:unset;min-height:unset;max-height:unset;box-sizing:unset;object-fit:unset;object-position:unset;table-layout:unset;text-overflow:unset;text-decoration:unset;ime-mode:unset"><a href="https://imgur.com/ml0IR2e" moz-do-not-send="true">https://imgur.com/ml0IR2e</a></span></div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><span style="background:unset;background-blend-mode:unset;border:unset;border-radius:unset;display:unset;float:unset;clear:unset;vertical-align:unset;overflow:unset;isolation:unset;break-after:unset;break-before:unset;break-inside:unset;columns:unset;column-fill:unset;column-rule:unset;column-span:unset;opacity:unset;mix-blend-mode:unset;font:unset;font-synthesis:unset;writing-mode:unset;text-orientation:unset;image-orientation:unset;border-collapse:unset;empty-cells:unset;caption-side:unset;border-spacing:unset;color:unset;text-transform:unset;text-indent:unset;word-break:unset;text-justify:unset;text-align-last:unset;text-align:unset;letter-spacing:unset;word-spacing:unset;white-space:pre;text-emphasis:unset;line-break:unset;text-combine-upright:unset;text-underline-position:unset;list-style:unset;quotes:unset;margin:unset;outline:unset;padding:unset;width:unset;min-width:unset;max-width:unset;height:unset;min-height:unset;max-height:unset;box-sizing:unset;object-fit:unset;object-position:unset;table-layout:unset;text-overflow:unset;text-decoration:unset;ime-mode:unset">
</span></div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"></span>We
hire third-parties who are from the area being mapped to tag
the location of establishments, landmarks, and other
government offices.
They will send to us the coordinates and the names of the
places, and will be encoded accordingly by a third-party.<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"></span>
<div class="gmail-richtext">
<p>The chances of having the same establishments, landmarks,
and government offices on the same location as Google is
for the basic reason that we are mapping the same areas on
planet Earth. Unless, Google mapped an alternate universe
that would result in different mapping of the same
locality.<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif" class="gmail_default">FWIW, I previously invited them to
engage with the LoCo through an online meeting, but instead
got this response.<br>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif" class="gmail_default">FYI.</div>
<br>
</div>
<div><font face="trebuchet ms, sans-serif" color="#999999">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - </font></div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<div><font face="trebuchet ms, sans-serif"><font color="#999999">»</font><font color="#ff6633"> </font>email:<font color="#000000"> <a href="mailto:erwin@ngnuity.net" style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">erwin@</a></font><a href="http://ngnuity.xyz/" style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><font color="#ff9900"><b>n</b></font><font color="#0066cc"><b>gnu</b></font><b><font color="#9900ff">it</font></b><font color="#ff9900"><b>y</b></font><font color="#000000"><b>.<font color="#ff9900">xyz</font></b></font></a><font color="#000000"> </font><span style="color:rgb(255,102,51)"></span></font>
<div><font face="trebuchet ms, sans-serif"><font color="#999999">»</font><font color="#ff6633"> </font>mobile: <a href="https://t.me/GOwin" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://t.me/GOwin</a></font></div>
<div>
<div><font face="trebuchet ms, sans-serif"><font><font color="#999999">»</font><font color="#000000"> </font></font>OpenPGP key:
3A93D56B <span style="color:rgb(255,102,51)">|</span> 5D42
7CCB 8827 9046 1ACB 0B94 63A4 81CE 3A93
D56B</font></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 12:19
PM Jherome Miguel <<a href="mailto:jheromemiguel@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true">jheromemiguel@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">Sorry, dapat send to all. </div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">---------- Forwarded
message ---------<br>
From: <strong class="gmail_sendername" dir="auto">Jherome
Miguel</strong> <span dir="auto"><<a href="mailto:jheromemiguel@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">jheromemiguel@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
Date: Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 10:06 PM<br>
Subject: Re: [talk-ph] Fwd: Another user possibly
illegal copying from GMaps<br>
To: Erwin Olario <<a href="mailto:govvin@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">govvin@gmail.com</a>><br>
</div>
<br>
<br>
<div dir="auto">Naghihintay pa ako ng reply sa huli kong
PM with Jan Rei. Sana may linaw na ang kaso nung kay JP
Baje, kung member sya ng PARA mapping team. Di ko
maiwasang mapa-PI at map-l****k nang nakita ko ang mga
edits ni Jan Rei. Salamat na we have now a direct
contact with a PARA map editor.</div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Jul 1, 2021
at 9:59 PM Erwin Olario <<a href="mailto:govvin@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">govvin@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Sa palagay
ko, ang pinaka-maganda ay makapag-setup ng
dialogue sa grupong (?) ito, para matulungan
silang malinawan sa mga alituntunin ng OSM, kung
yun nga talaga ang isyu dito.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Sumagot
ulit yung user na kausap ko, at sinasabi niyang
hindi daw kinopya sa ibang mapa yung mga edits
niya, at kinalap daw niya yon sa ibang sources.
Hiniling kong mag-bigay siya ng karagdagan pang
detalye sa proseso nila.<br clear="all">
</div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<font style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif;color:rgb(153,153,153)" face="trebuchet ms,
sans-serif">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - </font>
<div><font style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)" face="trebuchet ms, sans-serif"><font style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif;color:rgb(153,153,153)">»</font><font style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif;color:rgb(255,102,51)"> </font>email:<font style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"> <a href="mailto:erwin@ngnuity.net" style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">erwin@</a></font><a href="http://ngnuity.xyz/" style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><font style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif;color:rgb(255,153,0)"><b style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif">n</b></font><font style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif;color:rgb(0,102,204)"><b style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif">gnu</b></font><b style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif"><font style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif;color:rgb(153,0,255)">it</font></b><font style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif;color:rgb(255,153,0)"><b style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif">y</b></font><font style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><b style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif">.<font style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif;color:rgb(255,153,0)">xyz</font></b></font></a><font style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
</font><span style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif;color:rgb(255,102,51)"></span></font>
<div><font style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)" face="trebuchet ms, sans-serif"><font style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif;color:rgb(153,153,153)">»</font><font style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif;color:rgb(255,102,51)"> </font>mobile:
<a href="https://t.me/GOwin" style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://t.me/GOwin</a></font></div>
<div>
<div><font style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)" face="trebuchet ms, sans-serif"><font style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif;color:rgb(153,153,153)">»</font><font style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"> </font></font>OpenPGP key:
3A93D56B <span style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif;color:rgb(255,102,51)">|</span> 5D42 7CCB 8827 9046
1ACB 0B94 63A4 81CE 3A93
D56B</font></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Jul 2,
2021 at 11:39 AM Jherome Miguel <<a href="mailto:jheromemiguel@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">jheromemiguel@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">Kinakausap ko na rin ang user
kung kilala rin niya yung si “JPBaje”.
Lumalakas ang kutob ko na editor rin sya for
PARA, lalo’t hindi siya nag-reply sa una kong
mga PM sa kanya bago nirevert ang lahat ng
edits niya at siya’y binlock ng DWG.</div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu,
Jul 1, 2021 at 8:40 PM Erwin Olario <<a href="mailto:govvin@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">govvin@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">I
also got a reply, and the username[0]
has been changed.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">The
user acknowledged their affiliation
with the Para app, but did not
disclose the source of their edits.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">I
have previously been in touch with
officers from this corporation, and in
the past, they promised that they will
abide by OSM rules. If you get any
permission to share that number, I'm
willing to discuss this further with
their users <br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">[0]:
<a href="https://osmcha.org/filters?aoi=68b0b447-b692-47cd-ac6d-7be521e084b4" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://osmcha.org/filters?aoi=68b0b447-b692-47cd-ac6d-7be521e084b4</a></div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<font style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif;color:rgb(153,153,153)" face="trebuchet ms,
sans-serif">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - </font>
<div><font style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)" face="trebuchet ms, sans-serif"><font style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif;color:rgb(153,153,153)">»</font><font style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif;color:rgb(255,102,51)"> </font>email:<font style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"> <a href="mailto:erwin@ngnuity.net" style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">erwin@</a></font><a href="http://ngnuity.xyz/" style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><font style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif;color:rgb(255,153,0)"><b style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif">n</b></font><font style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif;color:rgb(0,102,204)"><b style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif">gnu</b></font><b style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif"><font style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif;color:rgb(153,0,255)">it</font></b><font style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif;color:rgb(255,153,0)"><b style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif">y</b></font><font style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><b style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif">.<font style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif;color:rgb(255,153,0)">xyz</font></b></font></a><font style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
</font><span style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif;color:rgb(255,102,51)"></span></font>
<div><font style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)" face="trebuchet ms, sans-serif"><font style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif;color:rgb(153,153,153)">»</font><font style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif;color:rgb(255,102,51)"> </font>mobile:
<a href="https://t.me/GOwin" style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://t.me/GOwin</a></font></div>
<div>
<div><font style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)" face="trebuchet ms, sans-serif"><font style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif;color:rgb(153,153,153)">»</font><font style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"> </font></font>OpenPGP key:
3A93D56B <span style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif;color:rgb(255,102,51)">|</span> 5D42 7CCB 8827 9046
1ACB 0B94 63A4
81CE 3A93 D56B</font></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On
Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 10:07 AM Jherome
Miguel <<a href="mailto:jheromemiguel@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">jheromemiguel@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">----------
Forwarded message ---------<br>
From: <strong class="gmail_sendername" dir="auto">Jherome Miguel</strong>
<span dir="auto"><<a href="mailto:jheromemiguel@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">jheromemiguel@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
Date: Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 8:04
PM<br>
Subject: Re: Another user
possibly illegal copying from
GMaps<br>
To: Eugene Alvin Villar <<a href="mailto:seav80@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">seav80@gmail.com</a>><br>
</div>
<br>
<br>
Just received reply (in Tagalog)
from user, asking me to contact by
phone, but as I’m in Canada, could
discuss it on-site instead. I’m in
a middle of a mass revert of edits
around BF Homes when I received
their PM.
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
_______________________________________________<br>
talk-ph mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:talk-ph@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">talk-ph@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
talk-ph mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:talk-ph@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">talk-ph@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
talk-ph mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:talk-ph@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">talk-ph@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
talk-ph mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:talk-ph@openstreetmap.org">talk-ph@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph</a>
</pre>
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