<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" /></head><body style='font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif'>
<p>Tjenare,</p>
<p>det kom en hel massa nytt öppet data från Lantmäteriet i februari i år, tror 1x1-DEM-modellen är med där men tile source finns nog inte (inte hunnit sätta mig in i hur det nya datat distribueras). Det skulle nog gå göra mycket med det nya öppna datat om någon orkar programmera lite och det går skaffa fram finansiering till en server. (Jag själv är fast i andra projekt så jag kan tyvärr inte bidra med programmering på ett tag. Gissar att det kan finnas folk på sverige-forumet som har mer koll, jag har hållit mig under radarn nu en tid.)<br /><br />Jag vill hursomhelst inte göra en politisk surdeg av detta. Jag är väl medveten om att få kartläggare i Sverige vill använda externa databaser i sin egen kartläggning. Jag sympatiserar med att man kan tycka det förtar lite av det roliga att använda externa databaser, det ursprungliga sättet då det bara fanns ortofoto och egen undersökning på marken *är* trevligt, jag gillar själv sitta och klicka ut efter ett ortofoto, och har gjort massor av det senaste tiden, och brukar göra en del kartläggning lokalt efter undersökning på marken varje år också. Det ena utesluter inte det andra. Att sitta och sammanfläta NVDB-data med existerande kartläggning är ett väldigt intensivt arbete (man får bland annat ägna mycket tid åt alignment correction av äldre kartläggning, det är inte bara vägar man fixar) och är definitivt inte för alla, eller ens för mig hela tiden, men stora delar av Sverige-datat i OSM skulle vara kraftigt eftersatt om vi inte hade nyttjat denna möjlighet.</p>
<p>Om det sen är nåt Mapbox borde göra (vars mål förstås är att slutprodukten ska bli mer heltäckande, inte nödvändigtvis maxa the fun factor för deras kartläggare) beror nog på hur avancerat arbete deras kartläggare klarar av. Av deras mejl att döma så har de ingen erfarenhet av att interagera med de olika ländernas importprojekt. Sverige är ju långt ifrån unikt med detta att landets lantmäteri öppnat upp en massa användbar data av mer komplex typ. Om de inte har erfarenhet och inte är beredd att lägga ner resurser för att sätta sig in i det och göra ett bra jobb är det nog bättre att de använder traditionella metoder.</p>
<p>/Anders</p>
<p id="reply-intro">On 2025-03-21 12:44, Erik Johansson wrote:</p>
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding: 0 0.4em; border-left: #1010ff 2px solid; margin: 0">
<div id="replybody1">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto">Oj! Jag som hoppades att du bara tog en liten pause trist isf! </div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">Jag är ointresserad av NVDB och det mapbox gör, och tycker inte den ger så mycket i den kartläggning jag gör. Jag vet att du är mycket mer systematiskt och då kanske en så stor databas fungerar som en dämpning av den kreativitet som krävs för att lösa saker i kartor.</div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">Jag tycker snarare att problematiken med externa databaser som detta är ett problem vi ändå skulle ha haft om vi gjorde allt själva. Alltså att samarbeta med en massa folk och data.</div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">/emj</div>
<br />
<div class="v1gmail_quote v1gmail_quote_container" dir="auto">
<div class="v1gmail_attr" dir="ltr">Den fre 21 mars 2025 12:31Andreas Arwin Vilén <<a href="mailto:andreas.vilen@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer">andreas.vilen@gmail.com</a>> skrev:</div>
<blockquote class="v1gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div dir="ltr">Denna övertro på NVDB är varför jag i princip helt slutat med OSM. Det är inte kul längre. Finns ingen poäng med att rita av en annan databas när man bara kan använda den databasen istället.
<div>/Andreas</div>
</div>
<br />
<div class="v1gmail_quote">
<div class="v1gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 7:59 AM Erik Johansson <<a href="mailto:erjohan@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer">erjohan@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote class="v1gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #cccccc; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto">Mapping with nvdb is mostly the best armchair mapping, but I agree with Zvenzzon. Would go so far as to say if you replace geometry with nvdb it is hard to be responsible.</div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">I use it for correcting ortoerrors.</div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">Troger is the DEM available as a tile source now?</div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">/emj</div>
<br />
<div class="v1gmail_quote" dir="auto">
<div class="v1gmail_attr" dir="ltr">Den tors 20 mars 2025 22:01Anders Torger via Talk-se <<a href="mailto:talk-se@openstreetmap.org" rel="noreferrer">talk-se@openstreetmap.org</a>> skrev:</div>
<blockquote class="v1gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #cccccc; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;">
<p>While there quality in NVDB does vary (it's a collection of multiple sources) and geometry simplifications does occur, it's on average very good. You cannot get the same accuracy from Bing or ESRI imagery, if you want to get similar precision from ortophoto you would need lantmäteriet's own. Sure if you have your own diff-GPS system you can get more precise, but most maps from some sort of orthophoto, usually with limited elevation correction leading to fairly large positional errors.</p>
<p>Ideally you should use NVDB + Orthophoto + strava heatmap for sanity checking + local knowledge where available. I've mapped tens of thousands of roads in this manner in northern Sweden and quality of NVDB is very good, while roads mapped on (especially older) ortophoto in hilly regions can be very far off the mark. In city geometry stuff get a bit more complicated, because there may be simplifications made for navigation which may not match with OSM tradition, and there you need to deviate at times. We have an ongoing manual import project with documentation of limitations and caveats. You should never import blindly, that's why the NVDB import project (or rather manual merging) takes such long time. If you see errors like duplicated geometries, clearly the mapper hasn't paid much attention to his or her merging effort. Any source if misused leads to poor results.</p>
<p>It's best to use multiple sources and if working in Sweden NVDB should for sure be one of them, and if the only positional data you have is NVDB and an ortophoto from Bing or Esri, NVDB is nearly always better positioned, with the exception of geometry simplification possibly occurring on multi-lane roads, or sometimes very new forestry roads with preliminary geometry and other rare exceptions. Naming of forestry roads can be wonky in places, as the reporting can be patchy and approximate depending on forestry company responsible for the reporting. Naming of roads in cities are usually of very high quality.</p>
<p>The problem with OSM in Sweden is that the coverage can be patchy in places where there are few active mappers, and some mapping can be rather outdated. The big cities are usually well covered, or home cities of super mappers. There are large areas in Sweden which is only occasionally paid attention to, and there mapping work from people without access to the ground is needed, and in such a situation using NVDB in a responsible way as one of the key sources is the best way to go.</p>
<p>However, if the mapper doesn't really want to make the effort to use NVDB responsibly and not knowing about its limitations or how you relate to existing mapping, it's best to not use it of course.</p>
<p>/Anders</p>
<p id="v1m_-7651669098567011477m_-1496402301137852525m_-4834979436146439662m_-2463029913974998763reply-intro">On 2025-03-20 13:07, Peter Svensson wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="padding: 0px 0.4em; border-left: 2px solid #1010ff; margin: 0px;">
<div id="v1m_-7651669098567011477m_-1496402301137852525m_-4834979436146439662m_-2463029913974998763replybody1">
<div dir="auto">
<div>I disagree. The only things that shows exact locations of Swedish roads are the ground itself. Everything else is approximations and simplifications which are by definition "not exact". I've lost count of how many things I've cleaned up after various NVDB import efforts, such as incorrect names and duplicated/questionable geometries. </div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">I encourage use of other sources than NVDB for mapping missing roads. </div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">With regards, </div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">zvenzzon </div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto"><br /><br />
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="ltr">Den tors 20 mars 2025 12:31Markku Siipola via Talk-se <<a href="mailto:talk-se@openstreetmap.org" rel="noreferrer">talk-se@openstreetmap.org</a>> skrev:</div>
<blockquote style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #cccccc; padding-left: 1ex;"><u></u>
<div>
<p>Your answers shows you are not aware of NDBD, the National road database. This source should always be used, and not any source. The NVDB shows the exact locations of Swedish roads. It's waste of time of not using this db.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto">
<blockquote style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #cccccc; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>
<p><br /></p>
<p><br /></p>
<div>Den 2025-03-20 kl. 08:38, skrev Valeria Yukovich via Talk-se:</div>
<blockquote style="padding: 0px 0.4em; border-left: 2px solid #1010ff; margin: 0px;">
<div dir="ltr"><span id="v1m_-7651669098567011477m_-1496402301137852525m_-4834979436146439662m_-2463029913974998763v1m_-8079520043846552646gmail-docs-internal-guid-b5319365-7fff-3c53-29f4-a6325c0b8617"><span style="background-color: #ffffff;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; text-align: justify; color: #000000; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;">Hello, Snusmumriken! Thank you for the questions. </span><br /><span style="font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; color: #000000; vertical-align: baseline;">We will be using available sources which are appropriate for mapping on OSM (satellite and</span><span style="font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; color: #1f2328; vertical-align: baseline;"> street-level imagery, for example). </span><span style="font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; vertical-align: baseline;">Besides that, we will be also using Mapbox telemetry data</span><span style="font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; color: #1f2328; vertical-align: baseline;"> and GPS traces in cases when there is limited evidence. More information about Mapbox telemetry data can be found here: </span><a style="text-decoration-line: none;" href="https://www.mapbox.com/telemetry" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; text-decoration-line: underline; vertical-align: baseline;">https://www.mapbox.com/telemetry</span></a><span style="font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; color: #1f2328; vertical-align: baseline;">. </span><br /><span style="font-family: Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">Speaking about our experience with other countries, we mostly encountered missing roads in newly built residential areas and around commercial objects, which we did not map in cases if the evidence (street-level imagery or up-to-date satellites, information from the telemetry) was not enough for mapping.</span></span></span></div>
<br />
<div>
<div dir="ltr">On Wed, Mar 19, 2025 at 12:18 PM Snusmumriken <<a href="mailto:snusmumriken.mapper@runbox.com" rel="noreferrer">snusmumriken.mapper@runbox.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #cccccc; padding-left: 1ex;">On Tue, 2025-03-18 at 16:46 +0300, Valeria Yukovich via Talk-se wrote:<br />> Hello from the Mapbox team!<br />> <br />> Our team has been mapping missing roads since May (as described<br />> here: <a href="https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/mapbox-organized-editing-" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/mapbox-organized-editing-</a><br />> missing-roads/113678) and currently we are preparing to expand the<br />> effort to Sweden. <br /><br />Hi<br /><br />I have basically two questions: <br />- What sources will you be using in Sweden?<br />- What are the most common problems you've encountered in other<br />countries?</blockquote>
</div>
<br /><fieldset></fieldset>
<pre>_______________________________________________
Talk-se mailing list
<a href="mailto:Talk-se@openstreetmap.org" rel="noreferrer">Talk-se@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br />Talk-se mailing list<br /><a href="mailto:Talk-se@openstreetmap.org" rel="noreferrer">Talk-se@openstreetmap.org</a><br /><a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se</a></blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br />
<div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-family: monospace;">_______________________________________________<br />Talk-se mailing list<br /><a href="mailto:Talk-se@openstreetmap.org" rel="noreferrer">Talk-se@openstreetmap.org</a><br /><a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se</a></div>
</blockquote>
<p><br /></p>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br />Talk-se mailing list<br /><a href="mailto:Talk-se@openstreetmap.org" rel="noreferrer">Talk-se@openstreetmap.org</a><br /><a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se</a></blockquote>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br />Talk-se mailing list<br /><a href="mailto:Talk-se@openstreetmap.org" rel="noreferrer">Talk-se@openstreetmap.org</a><br /><a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se</a></blockquote>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br />Talk-se mailing list<br /><a href="mailto:Talk-se@openstreetmap.org" rel="noreferrer">Talk-se@openstreetmap.org</a><br /><a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se</a></blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br />
<div class="pre" style="margin: 0; padding: 0; font-family: monospace">_______________________________________________<br />Talk-se mailing list<br /><a href="mailto:Talk-se@openstreetmap.org">Talk-se@openstreetmap.org</a><br /><a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se</a></div>
</blockquote>
<p><br /></p>
</body></html>