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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Hi<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Can I introduce myself as a new member of the talk-transit
list (and completely new to the OSM community). For my sins I have been
responsible for the development and implementation of the NaPTAN database
within the <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">UK</st1:place></st1:country-region>
and also for chairing the European standards work on IFOPT which Peter Miller
has referred to in earlier posts (and which leans heavily on NaPTAN for some of
its core functions). I am also the project manager for traveline south east –
and in that role I am heavily involved in the use of NaPTAN data within a large
public transport information system.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I have spent a couple of hours this afternoon skimming all the
posts on the talk-transit list to date … and whilst I have some thoughts
about some of the earlier discussions, it is probably best that I don’t
reopen discussions on them right now. I can, however, respond to questions
about what is intended with aspects of NaPTAN, where there are weaknesses in
the data, etc etc. As Peter has commented, the database is a distributed one
compiled and maintained by more than 140 local transport authorities over the
past 7 or 8 years (but quite a lot of data in NaPTAN was inherited from legacy
databases). Some parts of the country use certain aspects of the database more
extensively than others – and that is reflected in the quality of the
data being different between areas. Some are more consistent with the latest
guidelines, others are less so.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I can also suggest some pragmatic ways of using the data,
based on my experience of running traveline south east for almost 10 years –
how to make a purse out of a sow’s ear, maybe … but I think the
pragmatic approach has generated very usable public-facing information.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I appreciate that there are some differences of opinion
about what OSM is wanting to do with bus stop information – and whether
it should include “service” information. As Peter Miller has
aluded to in previous postings the NaPTAN database is solely a database of
access points – and this is completely separate from the “route and
timetable” data which is handled quite separately (albeit the latter is
referenced to the former). The complexity of routes and timetables, the
frequency of changes in them, and the exceptional arrangements for public
holidays and other special situations, make the nature of this data very
different from that which can be mapped – and in my view (and in the view
of the data standards) it forms a very separate layer of information which
might be summarised by designating each “route” (but is it a once-a
month market service in a rural area, or a high-frequency urban service running
seven days a week? – and is it a close variant of another “route”,
maybe with a similar number, maybe provided by a different operator, etc). I
would counsel strongly against getting into the service information aspect of
public transport at this stage – but focus instead on the infrastructure
that is needed, and to which any route and schedule information will be linked.
Incidentally we find from experience that most bus services can be routed on
maps using a shortest-route algorithm following normal roads between bus stops –
the need for additional waypoints is quite rare for normal stopping services,
and even for most limited-stop services. Buses really do normally find the
shortest route between their stops!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>That’s enough for my opening post … I look
forward to contributing to this project as a public transport data specialist,
and I look forward to learning in the process about the world of mapping and
OSM in particular.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Best wishes to you all<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial'>Roger</span></font><span lang=EN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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