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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Brian<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>My comments are shown below – I hope
they are helpful<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Roger</span></font><font color=navy><span
lang=EN-US style='color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
talk-transit-bounces@openstreetmap.org
[mailto:talk-transit-bounces@openstreetmap.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Brian Prangle<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 22 February 2009 22:01<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> talk-transit@openstreetmap.org<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [Talk-transit] NaPTAN bus
stop database</span></font><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Hi everyone <br>
<br>
Thanks for all the contributions - there's obviously still a lot to discuss,
agree and clarify. I'm keen to crack on and get some agreement on what I
think might be the easy decisions.<br>
<br>
1. Everything imported should be tagged NaPTAN: whatever the NaPTAN fieldname
is (except we might want to shorten some of the longer and more obstruse
names- any comments on this?) = value in NaPTAN. This follows the TIGER
pattern in the <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">US</st1:place></st1:country-region>
and makes explicit what the data is. I think we should adopt the capitalisation
structure of our data donors ;-)<font color=navy><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>[rs] I understand your wish to be less
verbose in your tags – and as long as the OSM tag is clearly an
abbreviated form of the NaPTAN field name, I think this is unlikely to be an
issue.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
1a - we can decide later if we are going to add the OSM tag highway=bus_stop
(or whatever the taxi one is) as part of the verification process with existing
OSM data<br>
2.No-one seems to object about creating a user NAPTAN ( or should that be
NaPTAN?) to do the import<font color=navy><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
3.We'll include taxi ranks but nothing else in this first phase<font
color=navy><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>[rs] Perhaps worth noting that taxi rank
data is not a key part of NaPTAN and completion rates for this are very low.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
4. I'd like to methodically work down the list of NaPTAN fields in <a
href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NaPTAN/Tag_mappings" target="_blank">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NaPTAN/Tag_mappings</a>
and agree on what we can omit. I've annotated what I think should be
omitted (labelled "N/A BB" ) for the first 4 tables under the NPTG
section. (Thomas - I don't understand your comment in the wiki page about this
data not being suitable for import - if you can explain and we can agree it's
not then we can just ignore it - but I think Peter has some form ideas about
the usefulness of this data). Can we concentrate on discussing and agreeing
this over the next week (or more quickly if it's not contentious) - then we can
move down the list. <font color=navy><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>[rs] From my perspective the key to NaPTAN
has to be AtcoCode – this defines the NaPTAN record, and is the code that
is used for cross-referencing records within NaPTAN. I will look at the
wiki to see what you are suggesting … there are some things in NaPTAN
that are self-evident if the data is used within a mapping context (eg: street,
crossstreet, landmark … these are in the database for searching purposes,
and also to give a pointer in the choice of commonname and indicator. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
5. Any field that is identified as optional I've omitted by default, as
presumably some regions/areas will have them and others won't<font color=navy><span
style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>[rs] “Optional” isn’t
necessarily the same as “important” … NaPTAN v2 is still in
the form that was launched when authorities had to migrate their data from v1
to v2 – so we were unable to make various fields mandatory at that point
as v1 data could not be imported against the v2 schema. Having said this,
though, I think it is unlikely that many data items that are optional are going
to be essential for OSM.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
6. Towards is not in the NapTAN data and is a local OSMer decision ( Andy
always tags these, I'm a bit hit-and-miss<br>
<br>
Questions/thoughts<br>
<br>
1. Taxi ranks : can someone explain the difference between a taxi rank and a
shared taxi rank (shared with what?)<font color=navy><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>[rs] There are two modes – “taxi”
is a vehicle exclusively hired by one person or party of travellers. “Shared
Taxi” (there aren’t many of them) are able to carry several
passengers at the same time, each making different journeys. As noted
earlier, taxi rank data is very limited – and there are very few shared
taxi ranks (if any) in NaPTAN data nationally. Personally I would ignore
both taxi rank and shared taxi rank at present.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
2. Fields which are described as location 3+ - what are these?<font color=navy><span
style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>[rs] NaPTAN generally describes points …
but for Hail-and-Ride stops, two additional locations are specified for each
stop. The NaPTAN record is the “anchor” location, but the
Hail-and-Ride section also has an entry point and an exit point (should be on
the same named road etc – see NaPTAN guideance – but this is not
always adhered to). More recently it has become possible to operate
services in “demand responsive” mode – where the service can
stop anywhere in a zone … and this requires a polygon to be defined
within which the bus can stop for each area served. … the 3+ refers to
the need to define at least three points in order to define a polygon. The
same applies to PlusBus zones – these are zones within which you can
travel on most buses using a PlusBus rail ticket.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
3. Ref numbers NaPTAN vs local. Lots of discussion and examples around this one
and I'm still confused. But I think it will resolve itself if we import
AtcoCode, NaptanCode,and PlateCode(even though this one breaks my rule of
being an optional field). Then any OSMer-generated data using ref or local_ref
(i.e what's seen on the ground) can be kept and OSMers can keep collecting such
local data.<font color=navy><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>[rs] As noted above, the AtcoCode is the
key to NaPTAN data and I think it is essential that this is used. NaptanCode
is the name given for structured codes used for SMS service (the rules for
which are likely to be relaxed in Yorkshire and <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">London</st1:place></st1:City> for local reasons – but the
codes will remain unique nationwide). PlateCode is optional and is not
widely populated – its use is almost exclusively related to particular
types of real-time information systems<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
4. Thomas - do you agree that Christophe's time would be better spent on a
Dracos-style data analysis tool? <a
href="http://www.dracos.co.uk/play/locating-postboxes/" target="_blank">http://www.dracos.co.uk/play/locating-postboxes/</a><br>
<br>
Regards<br>
<font color="#888888"><span style='color:#888888'><br>
Brian</span></font> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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