<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><br><div><div>On 6 Aug 2009, at 14:07, Frankie Roberto wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Peter Miller <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:peter.miller@itoworld.com">peter.miller@itoworld.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> <div style="word-wrap: break-word;"><br></div></blockquote></div></blockquote>snip</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div class="gmail_quote"><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word;"><div></div> <div><div class="im"><blockquote type="cite"><div class="gmail_quote"><div>b) splitting the pages down into smaller components - eg railways, bus stops, train services, train stations, etc. Whilst it's good to have an overall conceptual model, I think most mappers will be more interested in understanding how to tag at a feature level.<br> </div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div>Umm.. I think it is important to have a page for the conceptual model and then when we are happy with it, we introduce it into the other articles in the context of that transport mode. A description of a Stop Place for a drag-lift will be pretty different from that of an airport, but I am keen that there is a consistency across modes from a programming and tagging perspective.<br> <div class="im"><blockquote type="cite"><div class="gmail_quote"><div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><div>I think I more-or-less agree. I'm mainly just keen that we keep the discussion embedded in the context of actual usage (with plenty of real-life examples) rather than being too abstract. <br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>Ok, I completely agree that someone who wants to model a railway station should have to look no further that the train page (or railway station page) and should gets lots of great examples of how to model stations (and nothing about drag-lifts!).</div><div><br></div><div>However... I also want there to be a good robust general purpose model behind it (what I call the Stop Place) and that also needs a page that the developers look at when wondering how to model the world efficiently (including drag-lifts and Manchester Airport!).<br><blockquote type="cite"><div class="gmail_quote"><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word;"><div><div class="im"><blockquote type="cite"><div class="gmail_quote"> <div> I think we should also remove the redirect from <a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:public_transport" target="_blank">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:public_transport</a> and turn that into a standard Key page (with the KeyDescription infobox) documenting existing and proposed usage of the key. Likewise, it'd be useful to have the relevant tag and key pages for all the other tags and keys that are in use or proposed.<br> </div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div>It is certainly not appropriate for it to redirect to a user page. For now I have redirected it to the Transit article until someone fancies adding some content, however.... I am not clear if we even want a key of that title, should we not standarise on Transit rather than public transport. The proposed use of the tag is something I would prefer to call stop_place anyway.</div> </div></blockquote><div><br>I agree that whether we need the key or not is unclear. However, since there's at least some usages of it currently, I think it's worth documenting what the existing practice is at least (same for other tags with significant usage).<br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>fine by me<br><blockquote type="cite"><div class="gmail_quote"><div> <br>This reminds me - I think it'd be worth encouraging people here to share links to OSM for public transport stops/routes/etc that they've mapped, for feedback and discussion. I did this a while back on the discussion page for the unified_stoparea proposal (see <a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/unified_stoparea">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/unified_stoparea</a>)<br> <br>In this spirit, here's what I've mostly done so far:<br><br>Oxford Road train station (<a href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/78910">http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/78910</a>)<br> - mapped the platforms as areas (railway=platform, role=platform)<br> - mapped all the tracks, and the stopping points (role=halt) with one of them marked as the 'main' one with railway=station and a name tag.<br>- station building outline (building=yes, no role)<br>- footbridge and steps (not part of the relation - wasn't sure whether they should be?)<br> <br>Have started to map the tram system in Manchester as two separate tracks (<a href="http://osm.org/go/evgo1FaS--">http://osm.org/go/evgo1FaS--</a>) though this is complicated by the sharing of ways with the highway, and the current part-closure of the system for track replacement.<br> <br>Mapping UK tram system routes as relations (see <a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_Trams">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_Trams</a>)<br><br>Mapping UK 'minor railway' routes as relations (see <a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_United_Kingdom_Independent_and_minor_railways">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_United_Kingdom_Independent_and_minor_railways</a>)<br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>I suggest we have a list of 'examples of good practice' associated with each page. the Tram page should like to good examples of Tram modelling and also all the tram related projects and email list around the world. Similarly the Train / Railway page would do the same for trains. I suggest the Stop Place page might give some examples of a few of each sort of Stop Place, including a real monster multi-modal interchange (JFK, Heathrow or Schipol).</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Peter</div><div><br></div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div class="gmail_quote"><div> <br>Would welcome comments on any of those - and would love to see which bits of the map other people are working on!<br><br><br>Frankie<br clear="all"></div></div><br>-- <br>Frankie Roberto<br>Experience Designer, Rattle<br> 0114 2706977<br><a href="http://www.rattlecentral.com">http://www.rattlecentral.com</a><br><br> _______________________________________________<br>Talk-transit mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org">Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org</a><br>http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit<br></blockquote></div><br></body></html>