<div>It seems to me that access is forbidden to a private road because the landowner says so. It is not a public right of way, and it will remain so for the foreseeable future. If a bridge that normally would be a public right of way is closed, I would like to see that rendered differently on a map from a private road. On a low level the information is the same: you can't use this way. But this leaves unanswered questions: Is the way completely unused and unmaintained, or is access just forbidden to the public? Is access forbidden indefinitely or will it be allowed again in the future? As a map user, I'd like to be able to easily find the answers to these questions.</div>
<div><br></div><div>I think access=no make sense for any closed road/bridge, but I'd like some supporting tags to supply the rest of the information. The <a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access">access page on the wiki</a> mentions some time restriction tags (date_on, date_off, time_on, time_off). These could work for seasonal or temporary closures but I'm not too sure how to use them. </div>
<div><br></div><div>On another note, I don't like rendering of the <a href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=44.50376&lon=-73.16416&zoom=15&layers=B000FTF">access=no/private</a> tag. I think the red highlighting stands out way too much. Private/closed roads should stand out less than their open counterparts in my opinion. <a href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=42.9021&lon=-73.1967&zoom=14&layers=B000FTF">highway=construction</a>, and <a href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=44.81774&lon=-73.09425&zoom=15&layers=B000FTF">rail=abandoned/disused</a> are both less obvious on the sippy map than in use rail and highways. Am I alone here, or do other people agree?</div>
<div><br></div><div>I probably should move this conversation to the tagging list at this point. Is it just <a href="mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org">tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>?</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>
Zeke</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 1:38 PM, Anthony <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:osm@inbox.org">osm@inbox.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div class="im">On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 1:26 PM, Zeke Farwell <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ezekielf@gmail.com" target="_blank">ezekielf@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><div class="im">
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<div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left:1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex">
In this case, I'd say the renderer is right. Both access=private and access=no mean essentially the same thing - you aren't allowed there without explicit approval. In the case of access=no, that approval happens to come from a government agency, but I see no reason that needs to be drawn differently.</blockquote>
</div><br></div><div>I disagree, perhaps access=private and access=no do mean the same thing, but in that case access=no is not a good option for a closed bridge.</div></blockquote></div><div><br>Well, I didn't say they mean exactly the same thing, just essentially the same thing, within the context of a map.<br>
<br></div><div class="im"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left:1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex"><div>There are two distinct situations:</div><div><ol><li>A road/bridge is private and access is only allowed for specified users. Condition of the road is fine, so even if you are not allowed, you could choose to break the rules and use the road/bridge as long as there is no gate.</li>
<li>A road/bridge is closed because it is unsafe, under construction, or impassible. Even if you are granted access, it would not be desirable to use said road/bridge.</li></ol></div></blockquote></div><div><br>Road condition is separate from access=*. Safety is separate from access=*. In any case, access=closed tells us none of this. There are perfectly safe roads which are in perfect condition, but which are closed.<br>
</div><div class="im"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left:1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex"><div><div>It's been decided that access=private definitely indicates sitation 1. Situation 2 does not have a definite tagging scheme. Except for under construction.<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><div><br>Sure it does. There's smoothness=impassible, which arguably could also be used for unsafe. If you don't like using smoothness=impassible to indicate an unsafe bridge, come up with some sort of safety=unsafe tag (not sure how verifiable it'll be, though).<br>
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