<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">If it wasn't this dispute then it would have been another. At least now there's a precedent set for ground truth and following the local laws. One of the premises of OSM is that crowd-sourcing and local knowledge improves the quality of the maps, I think this conversation and eventual legal conclusion attained by going to the local authorities is exactly what OSM is about.<div>
<br><div><div>On Feb 11, 2013, at 12:22 PM, Clay Smalley <<a href="mailto:claysmalley@gmail.com">claysmalley@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><p dir="ltr">I think it's a little ridiculous that this dispute is going so far that anyone even consulted an expert. Obviously NE2 is wrong; we get it. This dead horse hasn't just been beaten; it's been liquefied. Let's just let the OSM gods deal with it, and go on with our lives. </p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Feb 11, 2013 10:35 AM, "Michael Patrick" <<a href="mailto:geodesy99@gmail.com">geodesy99@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>FYI, an official ruling from Mouseland. This email stuff is pretty cool, one can actually directly ask somebody who is a Subject Matter Expert! ;-)</div><div><br></div><div>Michael</div><div><br></div>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">From: <b class="gmail_sendername">FHP</b> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:FHP@flhsmv.gov" target="_blank">FHP@flhsmv.gov</a>></span><br>Date: Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 8:08 AM<br>Subject: RE: Legal Intersection Crossing<br>
To: Michael Patrick <<a href="mailto:geodesy99@gmail.com" target="_blank">geodesy99@gmail.com</a>><br><br><br>
<div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue">Dear Michael,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue">Thanks for your inquiry. Your question is:<u></u><u></u></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Goudy Old Style","serif";color:blue;background:yellow">The maneuver in question is whether one can proceed from the off ramp stop line, proceed perpendicular across Buena Vista Dr. , and enter onto the southbound onramp back onto southbound World Drive.</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Goudy Old Style","serif";color:blue"> <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue">The answer is <b><i><u>“not without violating Florida law”.</u></i></b> <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue">Point #1: The off ramp lane in your scenario is clearly marked as a “Left Turn Only” lane by the turn arrows painted on the roadway. In your scenario, instead of making a legal left turn, you would drive straight across the intersection and cross a “solid white line” and enter a “Right turn only lane” as indicated by the right turn arrows painted on the roadway.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue">Point #2: The right turn lane on Buena Vista Dr in which you would be entering, has a <b><i>solid white line</i></b> on both sides of the lane which means that a vehicle that has lawfully entered the lane cannot exit or change lanes and no other vehicles are permitted to cross the solid white line to enter the lane at that location.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue">The Florida Driver Handbook states on page 47:<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Goudy Old Style","serif";color:blue;background:yellow">Solid White Line<u></u><u></u></span></b></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Goudy Old Style","serif";color:blue;background:yellow">A solid white line marks the right edge of the roadway or separates lanes of traffic moving in the<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Goudy Old Style","serif";color:blue;background:yellow">same direction. You may travel in the same direction on both sides of this line, but you should<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Goudy Old Style","serif";color:blue;background:yellow">not cross the line unless you must do so to avoid a hazard.</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Goudy Old Style","serif";color:blue"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Goudy Old Style","serif";color:blue"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue">Since no hazard exit, this would be a violation of Florida Law. </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue">Customer Service Center<u></u><u></u></span></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue">Correspondence/Email Unit<u></u><u></u></span></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue">Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles<u></u><u></u></span></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue"><a href="http://www.flhsmv.gov/" target="_blank">www.flhsmv.gov</a></span></b><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue"><u></u><u></u></span></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;COLOR:navy;FONT-FAMILY:Arial"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:Arial"><font><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; "><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; "><span style="FONT-FAMILY:Arial"><font>The Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles is committed to Service, Integrity, Courtesy, Professionalism, Innovation and Excellence in all we do. Please let us know how we are doing via our online customer service survey at <u><font color="#000080" size="1"><font color="#000080" size="1"><a href="https://www.research.net/s/MLR9RGC" target="_blank"><font>https://www.research.net/s/MLR9RGC</font></a>.</font></font></u></font></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; "><u></u></div></span></font></span></span></font><font></font><span></span><span></span><font></font><span></span><span></span><font></font><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div></div>
<div></div>
<div><font color="navy"><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Michael Patrick [mailto:<a href="mailto:geodesy99@gmail.com" target="_blank">geodesy99@gmail.com</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, February 11, 2013 1:47 AM<br><b>To:</b> FHP<br><b>Subject:</b> Legal Intersection Crossing<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">
We are embedding turn restrictions in automated routing software. <u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">What is contested: <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">
<u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">The general area is west of Epcot Center, the end of the southbound off ramp from southbound World Drive to the intersection with Buena Vista Dr.<u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal">See attached photo BuenaVistaDrive-004.jpg ( or <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bxor0dnxUrN2S25sLXRLUW4wb0E/edit?usp=sharing" target="_blank">https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bxor0dnxUrN2S25sLXRLUW4wb0E/edit?usp=sharing</a> )<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">The maneuver in question is whether one can proceed from the off ramp stop line, proceed perpendicular across Buena Vista Dr. , and enter onto the southbound on ramp back onto southbound World Drive. This is shown as the red arrow on BuenaVistaDrive-001.jpg ( or see <u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bxor0dnxUrN2M0lIY0RoUUEzUTA/edit?usp=sharing" target="_blank">https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bxor0dnxUrN2M0lIY0RoUUEzUTA/edit?usp=sharing</a> )<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">This seems to be indicated because of the double signal visible from the off ramp stop line, even though at this point the road is a single lane. Also,there is a white left turn pavement arrow on the exit ramp.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">See the red arrow on BuenaVistaDrive-002.jpg ( or <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bxor0dnxUrN2em84TG1jb2hTcTQ/edit?usp=sharing" target="_blank">https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bxor0dnxUrN2em84TG1jb2hTcTQ/edit?usp=sharing</a> )<u></u><u></u></p>
</div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Superficially, at least, it seems possible to do this without crossing the gore markers in the intersection.<u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal">BuenaVistaDrive-003.jpg ( or <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bxor0dnxUrN2X1RKVzI3RXdzQzA/edit?usp=sharing" target="_blank">https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bxor0dnxUrN2X1RKVzI3RXdzQzA/edit?usp=sharing</a> )<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Also, although there is only a double signal on Buena Vista Dr. eastbound at this intersection, the stop line extends all the way across all three lanes of traffic, including the exit only onto the southbound World Drive ramp. <u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal">BuenaVistaDrive-005.jpg ( or <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bxor0dnxUrN2YlotaTVMRHA2OW8/edit?usp=sharing" target="_blank">https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bxor0dnxUrN2YlotaTVMRHA2OW8/edit?usp=sharing</a> )<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">After researching the Federal Highway Standards, the Florida Driver's Manual, etc. we were unable to make a conclusion. <u></u></p></div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Thank you for your time and consideration,<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">
Michael Patrick<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Open Street Map<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/" target="_blank">http://www.openstreetmap.org/</a><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">
<u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div></div></div></div><span></span></font></div></div></div><br>
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