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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Thanks very much! I've spent some time
looking over your ogr2osm translations. They are a huge
improvement over the translations I managed to find a year and a
half ago.<br>
<br>
I think it's just ARCGis 9.3.1 gbd files that USGS has "prestaged"
for easy downloading, isn't it? I can still get shapefiles
through the National Map Viewer. It's just that it's tedious to
do. I've worked through all of California, Oregon, and Washington;
most of Nevada and Arizona; and parts of Idaho with shapefiles. If
the mdb files are prestaged, too, maybe I ought to try to build
ogr2osm with mdb support. Though I have been warned...<br>
<br>
This is old business for you, so I understand if you have more
pressing things to do right now that look over USGS fcodes. But
here are some comments, anyway.<br>
So far I've just looked through your NHDArea translations
carefully. It probably would have made more sense to start with
Flowlines. Several of your fcode translations are big
improvements to mine, which in a couple of cases, I now see were
just wrong. Here are the others: <br>
<br>
NHDArea:<br>
<br>
fcode 33600 (Canal/Ditch no attributes): I use waterway:riverbank
rather than<br>
natural:water. I understand from the wiki that natural:water is
for lakes. <br>
<br>
fcode 33601 (Canal/Ditch aquaduct): I use waterway:riverbank.<br>
This fcode seems to be used for some major canals, though not
specifically for drinking water.<br>
Example : Folsom South Canal, 38.3336308072 -121.187999122<br>
A description is at<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.usbr.gov/projects/Project.jsp?proj_Name=Auburn-Folsom+South+Unit+Project">http://www.usbr.gov/projects/Project.jsp?proj_Name=Auburn-Folsom+South+Unit+Project</a>
<br>
Another example: 34.1782742136 -114.613353799<br>
<br>
fcodes 34305 and 34306 (Dam/Weir earthen and nonearthen,
respectively): <br>
The "dam=..." key appears to be novel, but looks good to me.
Would<br>
earthen/nonearthen, the attributes usgs assigns, be more likely to
be widely<br>
adopted than earth/artificial? <br>
<br>
I don't know if FType 343 includes real weirs as<br>
well as dams. The closest example I found was a 34306 spillway,
cf,<br>
38.2520654073 -120.846461923. The rest of 34306 seems to be
concrete dams.<br>
<br>
fcode 36200 (Flume) : These are rare in Area files. In Flowline
files they seem<br>
to be more or less canal/ditches. The one Area example I found
looks like an<br>
overpass for runnoff:<br>
32.7471792158 -114.708445399<br>
<br>
fcode 36400 (Foreshore) : I've been using natural:wetland rather
than<br>
natural:beach. At least the examples I know in subregion 1804
make for poor sunbathing, eg<br>
38.0659132742 -121.581538522<br>
<br>
fcode 40300 (Innundation area no attributes) : You leave this
untagged.<br>
I can't find any instances. Maybe it should be tagged
natural:water<br>
intermittent:yes like other FType 403 fcodes?<br>
<br>
fcodes 40307,40308,4039 (Innundation Area) : The use of the key
'intermittent' with<br>
value other than 'yes' appears to be very unusual in taginfo, but
it seems like an<br>
excellent way to distinguish these three fcodes, at least so long
as people don't<br>
start using things like intermittent:no, which would make
intermittent=* meaningless.<br>
<br>
fcode 44500 (Sea/Ocean) : Is it because this is redundant with OSM
that you don't<br>
tag it natural:ocean ?<br>
<br>
fcodes 46000, 46003, 46007, and 48400: USGS uses the last three<br>
inconsistently, so maybe simply waterway:riverbank would be good
for these four<br>
relations, augmented by intermittent:yes for the last three. Some
comments<br>
regarding the last three of these fcodes:<br>
<br>
fcode 46003 (Stream/River intermittent) <br>
I would guess that this is a stream that may dry up sometimes,<br>
eg, 37.7107086081 -120.626779323 and<br>
East Fork Carson River, N38° 57.305 W119° 46.945<br>
But there is also<br>
34.4807920798 -114.271963533<br>
which looks more like what I'd expect for 46007 or 48400.<br>
<br>
You are tagging 46003 with natural:water intermittent:yes, but
suggest tagging<br>
waterway:river or waterway:stream instead. My understanding from<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features</a> is that
natural:water is for lakes<br>
and that waterway:river and waterway:stream are are intended for<br>
ways rather than relations. (Taginfo shows that a good deal of
tagging doesn't<br>
conform to the these wiki definitions, though.)<br>
<br>
fcode 46007 (Stream/River ephemeral)<br>
This seems to be used for usually dry stream beds, but used so
rarely I can't be<br>
sure,<br>
37.612028475 -120.016223924<br>
<br>
fcode 48400 (Wash) - Here are three very different examples with
this fcode. <br>
The first looks like a classic wash to me, ill-defined and
normally dry,<br>
N40° 23.424 W118° 46.276<br>
Another is indistinguishable for me from 46007:<br>
46.7309427941 -121.872430188<br>
Another is indistinguishable by me from 46003:<br>
36.8003856762 -120.164653791<br>
<br>
Thanks again, Mack<br>
<br>
<br>
On 03/11/2013 11:01 PM, Paul Norman wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">With
all the address stuff I’ve completely dropped NHD off my
plate.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
had been working on a NHD to OSM conversion and had gotten
so far as to get a Potlatch2 instance with it as a
background layer, see <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us/2012-November/009515.html">http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us/2012-November/009515.html</a>
and <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://took.paulnorman.ca/potlatch2/potlatch2.html">http://took.paulnorman.ca/potlatch2/potlatch2.html</a>.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The
NHD data model changed shortly after bsupnik wrote his
conversions and some fcodes changed. This makes using his
conversions difficult.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
would welcome a review of the tagging which I am proposing,
which can be found at <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://github.com/pnorman/ogr2osm-translations/blob/us_nhd/us_nhd.py">https://github.com/pnorman/ogr2osm-translations/blob/us_nhd/us_nhd.py</a>.
I can also generate a .osm file for any sub-basin (4 digit
code), or extract part of a subbasin.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">ogr2osm
isn’t too hard to run, but compiling ogr to have .mdb
support to open up the files from the USGS is difficult, so
if you want me to convert an area let me know the bbox and
sub-basin.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
Mack Stanley [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:mcs1937@gmail.com">mailto:mcs1937@gmail.com</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 11, 2013 9:34 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:talk-us@openstreetmap.org">talk-us@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Talk-us] Questions about bsupnik's
NHD OSM files<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-family:"Bitstream Vera
Sans","serif"">I have some questions
regarding bsupnik's osm xml files made from the NHD<br>
flowline, waterbody, line, and point shapefiles. <br>
<br>
I was very happy, belatedly, to find these files
graciously created and hosted by<br>
bsupnik. Fall of 2011, I worked up some ogr2osm
translations to do the same thing<br>
on shapefiles laboriously downloaded using the balky USGS
National Map Viewer,<br>
unaware of bsupnik's work.<br>
<br>
I've read a lot about the tagging and integration issues
that make bulk uploading<br>
NHD data to OSM a bad idea. My goal was just to use it to
make a hydrography<br>
layer for my own use, while conforming to consensus
tagging conventions,<br>
potentially to make it useful to others.<br>
<br>
I'd love to use bsupnik's files, instead. My main problem
is that GNIS names of<br>
streams and waterbodies aren't included. I've seen this
mentioned in this list's<br>
archives, but couldn't find why this is, or how to fix
it. <br>
<br>
I looked into adding name tags from GNIS feature files,
but this looks more or<br>
less impossible. Names in feature files are attached to
points. The name point<br>
for a tributary is often at its confluence with the stream
it feeds, making the<br>
name assignments difficult to determine mechanically. <br>
<br>
The rest of my questions are about tags. I've looked in
detail at four files<br>
(15010014, 16040201, 17090006, and 18040011). <br>
<br>
Three great things about bsupnik's files are that they are
small, they are easy to<br>
read by humans, and the ultimate objects (points in point
files, ways in flowline<br>
files, and relations in area and waterbody files) are
tagged with their fcodes.<br>
This last feature means that other tags are frosting on
the cake---it's trivial to<br>
rewrite with different tags. Bsupnik's wise preference
seems to be to simply<br>
leave objects without regular osm tags in cases where the
correct tagging is<br>
uncertain.<br>
<br>
Nevertheless ...<br>
<br>
In Flowline files, why is<br>
<br>
fcode 33400 (connector) is tagged waterway:stream rather
than waterway:canal ?<br>
<br>
fcode 46000 (Stream/River no attributes) is not tagged,
rather than<br>
waterway:stream ? (Other Stream/River fcodes are tagged
waterway:stream.)<br>
<br>
fcode 46007 (Stream/River ephemeral) is tagged just
waterway:stream, rather than<br>
waterway:stream intermittent:yes ?<br>
<br>
In Waterbodies files, why is<br>
<br>
fcode 39001 (Lake/pond intermittent) tagged natural:water<br>
occurrence:intermittent, rather than natural:water
intermittent:yes ?<br>
<br>
All of the other intermittent tags that I have run across
in the bsupnik nhd files<br>
follow the more common usage (judging by taginfo)
intermittent:yes rather than occurrence:intermittent.<br>
<br>
fcode 46600 (Swamp/Marsh no attribute) is tagged
natural:wetland, but<br>
fcode 46601 (Swamp/Marsh intermittent) is not tagged, and<br>
fcode 46602 (Swamp/Marsh perennial) is not tagged.<br>
<br>
Why not tag all three natural:wetland with
intermittent:yes added to 46601 ?<br>
<br>
Thanks for your time and interest,<br>
<br>
Mack</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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