<div dir="ltr">Simon,<div><br></div><div>Hello again. Thank you for the info about how Kort works. As a newcomer to OSM I wasn't familiar with keepright. </div><div><br></div><div>Upon further study I discover that a user has added tags for Portland's Northwest (and Southwest) Naito Parkway in Japanese, and that keepright wants to know the language of the original name. This must be why Kort repeatedly asks me to specify the (English) language of ways on this street.</div>
<div><br></div><div>On the bi-lingual questions, I just came back from a trip to Switzerland and had noticed the different approach to language signing than that of (say) Canada. Except in Quebec, much of which is signed only in French, most Canadian streets are named (say) "Rue Blackshaw Street" on a single name plate, with Rue and Street in smaller text than the core name itself. As you say, this is not the practice in Switzerland. And Kort reflects this. Good! </div>
<div><br></div><div>The policy question of whether city streets in Portland should be tagged bilingually in English and Japanese is currently beyond me. It is possible that the city has signed this street in Japanese as well as English. I'll take a look now I know what's going on.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Thank you for helping me understand how Kort works,</div><div><br></div><div>Peter</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jan 17, 2014 at 1:46 AM, Simon Poole <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:simon@poole.ch" target="_blank">simon@poole.ch</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
Hi Peter<br>
<br>
The underlying errors that are used for the challenges in Kort are
generated by keepright
<a href="http://keepright.ipax.at/report_map.php?zoom=12&lat=39.95356&lon=-75.12364" target="_blank">http://keepright.ipax.at/report_map.php?zoom=12&lat=39.95356&lon=-75.12364</a>
and while the Kort authors select suitable errors for the game
itself, they don't influence what keepright considers an error
directly (see <a href="https://github.com/kort/kort/wiki" target="_blank">https://github.com/kort/kort/wiki</a>). That said, perhaps
a pointer to one of the roads in question would be helpful, IMHO
keepright doesn't actually complain about missing language on street
names (it does about the same for other objects).<br>
<br>
Simon<br>
<br>
PS: while Switzerland has numerous places that are truly bi-lingual,
most aren't and current practice is not to add and extra name:de,
name:fr, name:it or name:rm if there is only one name (which, if you
think of it might lead to issues in exactly such bi-lingual places).
Anyway I definitely don't have a couple of 100 Kort challenges
around where I live (mono-lingual German speaking region), so likely
you are seeing something different. <br>
<br>
<br>
<div>Am 17.01.2014 00:24, schrieb Peter
Davies:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Simon,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I tried Kort here in Portland, Oregon. It gave me some
interesting things to think about. I'd hoped to send them to
talk-ch, but it seems I can't without subscribing in the
longer term. Maybe you can relay this to your local
colleagues?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Kort gave me three types of mission. One was to enter the
language of some street names here in Portland. The second was
to enter some speed limits, and the third was to name a pub.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As feedback, and as a suggestion on how the game might need
to be modified for countries outside Switzerland, I don't
think that specifying the language of a street sign is useful
in essentially monolingual countries. In the USA, street signs
should always be considered to be in English. There is no
reason to tag them with any language in OpenStreetMap.
English is the default.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>There are interesting questions, of course: El Camino Real
is a common street name in California, and is obviously
Spanish, so what is the correct English name? Is it "The
Royal Road"? No, I don't think so; we would not want to
translate this to create an American English name. The
correct name in English is "El Camino Real." The Spanish
name has been adopted into English usage. Local English
speakers would all say "El Camino Real."</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>These thoughts lead me to the "Avenue des <span style="color:rgb(68,68,68);font-family:arial,sans-serif;line-height:12.800000190734863px">Champs</span><span style="color:rgb(68,68,68);font-family:arial,sans-serif;line-height:12.800000190734863px">-</span><span style="color:rgb(68,68,68);font-family:arial,sans-serif;line-height:12.800000190734863px">Élysées</span>".
Should we write "<span style="color:rgb(68,68,68);font-family:arial,sans-serif;line-height:12.800000190734863px">Elysian
Fields Avenue" in English? No, of course not. Almost
everyone has heard of the </span><span style="color:rgb(68,68,68);font-family:arial,sans-serif;line-height:12.800000190734863px">Champs</span><span style="color:rgb(68,68,68);font-family:arial,sans-serif;line-height:12.800000190734863px">-</span><span style="color:rgb(68,68,68);font-family:arial,sans-serif;line-height:12.800000190734863px">Élysées,
and no-one would dream of writing the "</span><span style="color:rgb(68,68,68);font-family:arial,sans-serif;line-height:12.800000190734863px">Elysian
Fields". So should we be translating street names at all?
My conclusion is that only countries with separate, major
linguistic communities actually do this. Personally I'd like
my map to say "</span><font face="Helvetica Neue, Arial,
sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12px;line-height:20px">Hauptbahnhofstrasse</span></font><span style="color:rgb(68,68,68);font-family:arial,sans-serif;line-height:12.800000190734863px">"
and not "Central Station Street", so I could find it on
other maps and signs, or try to ask for it correctly in </span><span style="color:rgb(68,68,68);font-family:arial,sans-serif;line-height:12.800000190734863px">Solothurn</span><span style="color:rgb(68,68,68);font-family:arial,sans-serif;line-height:12.800000190734863px">.
</span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(68,68,68);font-family:arial,sans-serif;line-height:12.800000190734863px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(68,68,68);font-family:arial,sans-serif;line-height:12.800000190734863px">On
the other two questions, I knew that the urban speed limits
were all 25 mph, because this is the blanket limit in
Oregon's urban areas, but when I tried to enter this it was
rejected. I was allowed to enter 25, but I worried that Kort
might think this was in km/h. Would it enter 25 km/h into
OpenStreetMap if someone confirmed my response? Meanwhile I
found all of central Portland's </span><span style="color:rgb(68,68,68);font-family:arial,sans-serif;line-height:12.800000190734863px">residential
roads</span><span style="color:rgb(68,68,68);font-family:arial,sans-serif;line-height:12.800000190734863px"> without
speed tags in JOSM and set them to 25 mph. </span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(68,68,68);font-family:arial,sans-serif;line-height:12.800000190734863px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(68,68,68);font-family:arial,sans-serif;line-height:12.800000190734863px">Finally
the pub: I didn't know it! It still remains to be answered.</span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(68,68,68);font-family:arial,sans-serif;line-height:12.800000190734863px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(68,68,68);font-family:arial,sans-serif;line-height:12.800000190734863px">Thank
you for this interesting game,</span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(68,68,68);font-family:arial,sans-serif;line-height:12.800000190734863px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(68,68,68);font-family:arial,sans-serif;line-height:12.800000190734863px">Peter</span></div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 4:38 AM,
Simon Poole <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:simon@poole.ch" target="_blank">simon@poole.ch</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> <br>
From the talk mailing list (mandatory disclosure: yes I
know the authors).<br>
<div><br>
<br>
-------- Original-Nachricht --------<br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">Hi there,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'm very proud to announce that finally Kort[1]
(the OSM game) writes back it's collected
solutions to OSM! All changes are made by the OSM
user "kort-to-osm"[2], so it's easy to track them.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Our actions were coordinated with the local
(Swiss) community and the Data Working Group
(DWG). According to the "Mechanical Edit
Policy"[3] all changesets have the tag
mechanical=yes and the users profile page contains
all relevant information about the project. With
all the extra information in the changeset
comment, we are able to trace back an edit through
Kort and even further to its source. By the way,
for most missions KeepRight[4] is the source.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Until now we made over 280 changes. All changes
were validated by at least 3 users. There are
still lots of solved missions that are just
waiting to be validated, so that we are able to
finally provides them to OSM.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The source code for kort-to-osm is available on
GitHub[5], you are very welcome to open issues or
provide pull requests. The underlying python
library to access the OpenStreetMap API is
osmapi[6].</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>***Apart from this big step, Kort itself has
some new features:***</div>
<div>- Upgrade to Sencha Touch 2.3 -> now all
major browsers are supported (IE, Firefox, Chrome,
Safari)</div>
<div>- Thanks to our new database server, we can
provide missions in the USA as well (no more
limits!)</div>
<div>- Our homepage <a href="http://kort.ch" target="_blank">kort.ch</a>
is available in English, too :)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Any remarks, comments, issues etc. are very
welcome!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best regards Stefan</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">[1] <a href="http://www.kort.ch/index_en.html" target="_blank">http://www.kort.ch/index_en.html</a> resp. <a href="http://play.kort.ch/" target="_blank">http://play.kort.ch</a></div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">[2] <a href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/kort-to-osm" target="_blank">http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/kort-to-osm</a></div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
[3] <a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mechanical_Edit_Policy" target="_blank">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mechanical_Edit_Policy</a></div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">[4] <a href="http://keepright.at/" target="_blank">http://keepright.at</a></div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">[5] <a href="https://github.com/kort/kort-to-osm" target="_blank">https://github.com/kort/kort-to-osm</a></div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
[6] <a href="https://pypi.python.org/pypi/osmapi" target="_blank">https://pypi.python.org/pypi/osmapi</a></div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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<a href="mailto:Talk-us@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">Talk-us@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote></div><br></div>