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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Century Schoolbook","serif"'>As a general rule, bicycles are prohibited from freeways in the US “east of the Mississippi” and allowed on rural freeways in the west. Of course this is a very broad definition and only a starting point for understanding. The key point is that people “in the east” often assume that bicycles are never allowed on freeways because they have never seen it, while people “in the west” assume that bicycles are allowed unless specifically prohibited. This results in confusion, to say the least. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Century Schoolbook","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Century Schoolbook","serif"'>To deal with this you need to have the understanding of the general principles and then you have to actually know the local conditions.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Century Schoolbook","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Century Schoolbook","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Century Schoolbook","serif"'>Kerry Irons<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Century Schoolbook","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> John F. Eldredge [mailto:john@jfeldredge.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 12, 2015 12:43 AM<br><b>Cc:</b> talk-us@openstreetmap.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Talk-us] Bike route relation issues<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:0in'><span style='color:black'>By contrast, I am not aware of any Interstate highways in the southeast USA that allow bicycles. From my experience, every entrance ramp has signs forbidding non-motorized traffic and mopeds.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:0in'><span style='color:black'>-- <br>John F. Eldredge -- <a href="mailto:john@jfeldredge.com">john@jfeldredge.com</a><br>"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:10.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:10.0pt;margin-left:0in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>On January 11, 2015 8:10:04 PM stevea <<a href="mailto:steveaOSM@softworkers.com">steveaOSM@softworkers.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid gray 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 5.0pt;margin-left:4.5pt;margin-right:0in'><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 1:54 PM, stevea <<a href="mailto:steveaOSM@softworkers.com">steveaOSM@softworkers.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>I do not agree: again, I find no evidence (from the Oregon DOT map) that bicycles are explicitly designated "legal" on I-5. It may be the case that explicit statute specifies bicycles are allowed on I-5 in Oregon, but this map does not explicitly do so. Again, please note that no specific "bike routes" are designated on that map, either. It simply displays some highways as Interstates and some highways as containing wide shoulders or narrow shoulders. While not complaining about Oregon's DOT helping bicyclists better understand where they might or might not ride a bicycle in that state, I characterize these map data as "early" or "underdeveloped" w.r.t. helpful "bicycle routing" by a DOT.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><br>Oregon and Washington allow all modes on all routes unless otherwise posted. They have to explicitly sign exclusions, and they do. Here's the list for Oregon<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><a href="http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/HWY/BIKEPED/docs/freeway_ban.pdf">http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/HWY/BIKEPED/docs/freeway_ban.pdf</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>And Washington:<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><a href="http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/bike/closed.htm">http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/bike/closed.htm</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>My previous post was California centric, going too far assuming for other states. (And fifty-at-a-time only in certain circumstances).<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>A starting place (properly placed in the locus of each state, with perspective as a router might parse logic and build a routing set...) is the following:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>For 100% of ways with tag highway, set bicycle legality_status = "legal." (This keeps "everything still in the running.") Now, apply a per-state rule (could be a table lookup, could be a smarter data record):<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>With both Washington and Oregon:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> exclude from our data set ways where helpful OSMers have tagged "bicycle=no"<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>With California:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> exclude from our data set ways tagged highway=motorway,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> add to the set cycleways and highways tagged bicycle=yes.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>We are right in the middle of "fifty ways of calculating a set." Those target objects might be elements of a bicycle route. As we get the tags right (critical, on the data and "at the bottom") we must also treat the rules of what we seek from those data as critical, too (from the top, down). It's reaching across and shaking hands with a protocol, or a stack of protocols. It's data, syntax and semantics. When the sentence is grammatical (tags are correct for a parser), it clicks into place with the correct answer (renders as we wish).<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>For the most part, we get it right. But we do need to understand the whole stack of what we do every once in a while, and pointing out "data in California, treat like this, data in Oregon, Washington..., treat like that..." is helpful to remember. Can we get to a place where everybody can do things (tag) "just right for them" and have it always work (render), everywhere every time? Mmmmm, not without documentation and perhaps conversations like this.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>This is why documenting what we do and how we do it (and referring to the documentation, and trying to apply it strictly, unless it breaks, then perhaps talk about it and even improve it...) is so important.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Listen, build, improve, repeat. Thank you (Paul, for your specific answer, as well as others for participating).<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>SteveA<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>California<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>Talk-us mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Talk-us@openstreetmap.org">Talk-us@openstreetmap.org</a><br><a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></div></div></div></body></html>