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<div>Simon Poole writes:</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>Up to now OSM has drawn the line in such
a way that stuff that is<br>
signposted and is observable on the ground is fair game (with
some</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>exceptions, I believe the GR issue is
still unsolved).</blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>Yes, all of that is fair game. Though I don't know what
"the GR issue" is, and ask you to please clarify.</div>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>If you are using</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>a collection of facts, be it a list, a
map, a file on a computer or<br>
whatever, we have to now always taken the, fairly high ground,
position<br>
that you either need explicit permission (by agreement, licence or<br>
similar) or that the use of the source is clearly not subject to<br>
copyright any longer. Forgetting about other rights, regulations
etc</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>that may exist for the purpose of this
discussion.</blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>When a "collection of facts about the world" are data
published by a government (around here, those are our employees),
ESPECIALLY if/as one is in a jurisdiction where geo data published by
us (via the government) are explicitly prohibited to be encumbered by
copyright or onerous "Terms" -- as I do -- then use of those
data flowing into OSM should be absolutely uncontroversial. As
the explicit example I used in the instant case, road/rail crossing
data published by our PUC that became reverse-engineered names of
subdivisions sufficient to tag nastily-tagged TIGER data (just plain
wrong, but better than nothing and an OK starting place) so they are
more correct is a perfectly valid use of such data. I believe
anybody in any of the 49 other states can do this, but I am not as
familiar with their Public Records Acts (or<i> stare decisis</i>) as I
am California's. Nor am I an attorney. But I can read and
make these determinations. In fact, I believe any reasonably
intelligent adult can do so. If we can't, it is incumbent upon
OSM to help us do better. Erring on the side of "high
ground" safety might be a good place to plant an initial flag,
but if it's location is wrong and we need to move it to a more
accurate place, we must do so.</div>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>What you seem to be saying in your above
statement, followed by stevea's<br>
battle call to actually do so, that wholesale extraction of
facts from<br>
any source is unproblematic and is something that can be done
without<br>
further consideration and the net result can be used in OSM
globally</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>with no expectation of
problems</blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>This is putting it too strongly, indeed. "Facts about
the world," where, for example, long snaking industrial things
with names that go through my and millions of others' neighborhoods
should also be named in OSM. I see no problem whatsoever with
that. I do say to not get these facts from sources where
copyright is an issue. But if, as is true in the instant case,
it can be determined from "is, can be or should be known by the
public as 'facts about the world,'" then yes, I stand by my
"battle call." As "facts about the world,"
these data belong to us, and when true, we can put them into OSM.
(Sometimes such data, like airline routes, are inappropriate to put
into OSM -- but that's another topic).</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>It sounds like it is getting a bit shrill. I'll say it
again: I wish light, not heat.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>SteveA</div>
<div>California</div>
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