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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Century",serif;color:black'>Not to cloud this discussion, but be aware that at least some states refer to “county trunk” roads at the county level.  Near as I can tell that simply means “major” vs. “minor” roads at the county level without rigid criteria to define them.  Looking at the US NHS roads for my area, it seems that the choices to include a given highway in the NHS is fairly arbitrary.  There may have been traffic counts included in the decision but that would have been only part of the criteria – highways in low-population areas are part of the NHS while much heavier traffic highways in more densely populated areas are not.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Century",serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Century",serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Century",serif;color:black'>Kerry Irons<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><a name="_MailEndCompose"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Century",serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></a></p><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose'></span><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> Bill Ricker [mailto:bill.n1vux@gmail.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, December 31, 2016 12:22 PM<br><b>To:</b> Volker Schmidt <voschix@gmail.com><br><b>Cc:</b> talk-us@openstreetmap.org Openstreetmap <talk-us@openstreetmap.org><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Talk-us] highway=trunk for NHS routes?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Sat, Dec 31, 2016 at 4:21 AM, Volker Schmidt <<a href="mailto:voschix@gmail.com" target="_blank">voschix@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><p class=MsoNormal>You can find detailed PDF maps of all NHS Routes, state-by-state at a web page of the Federal Highway Administration <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>​<span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>[...]. On these maps you will find plenty of NHS roads that are definitively not trunk roads.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Just two examples in Arizona:<o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>I will agree isn't what could handle 'trunk' volume in a densely settled area in EU or NY.<br>If we follow the physical description checklist rigidly, we'd conclude there are few trunk roads outside of metropolises. <br><br>Both appear to be well maintained in the photos; the width of paving greatly exceeds the two marked lanes. Out where "50 Miles to Next Gas" signs still live, this is a major road. <br><br>US160 is the most significant road for literally miles. </span>​<span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><br>US180 is the tourist main feeder to the Grand Canyon . . <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Wikipedia says [0]<o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left:30.0pt;background:white;line-height:inherit;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-align:start;word-spacing:0px'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#252525'>The<span class=gmail-apple-converted-space> </span><b>National Highway System</b><span class=gmail-apple-converted-space> </span>(<b>NHS</b>) is a network of strategic<span class=gmail-apple-converted-space> </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway" title=Highway><span style='color:#0B0080;text-decoration:none'>highways</span></a><span class=gmail-apple-converted-space> </span>within the<span class=gmail-apple-converted-space> </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States" title="United States"><span style='color:#0B0080;text-decoration:none'>United States</span></a>, including the<span class=gmail-apple-converted-space> </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_Highway_System" title="Interstate Highway System"><span style='color:#0B0080;text-decoration:none'>Interstate Highway System</span></a><span class=gmail-apple-converted-space> </span>and other roads serving major airports, ports, rail or truck terminals, railway stations,<span class=gmail-apple-converted-space> </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pipeline_transport" title="Pipeline transport"><span style='color:#0B0080;text-decoration:none'>pipeline terminals</span></a><span class=gmail-apple-converted-space> </span>and other strategic transport facilities. Altogether, it constitutes the largest highway system in the world.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left:30.0pt;background:white;line-height:inherit;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-align:start;word-spacing:0px'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#252525'>Individual<span class=gmail-apple-converted-space> </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._state" title="U.S. state"><span style='color:#0B0080;text-decoration:none'>states</span></a><span class=gmail-apple-converted-space> </span>are encouraged to focus federal funds on improving the efficiency and safety of this network. The roads within the system were identified by the<span class=gmail-apple-converted-space> </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Transportation" title="United States Department of Transportation"><span style='color:#0B0080;text-decoration:none'>United States Department of Transportation</span></a><span class=gmail-apple-converted-space> </span>in cooperation with the states, local officials, and<span class=gmail-apple-converted-space> </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_planning_organization" title="Metropolitan planning organization"><span style='color:#0B0080;text-decoration:none'>metropolitan planning organizations</span></a><span class=gmail-apple-converted-space> </span>and approved by the<span class=gmail-apple-converted-space> </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Congress" title="United States Congress"><span style='color:#0B0080;text-decoration:none'>United States Congress</span></a><span class=gmail-apple-converted-space> </span>in 1995.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>So being on this list should assure the road is among the best maintained.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Oh, because we don't have green A signage on the NHS designated routes, and we only map what is physically there ? <br>The Mapillary photos show modern video billboards. If the advertisers recognize it as a trunk worth their time, we can too.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Being better maintained or wider than other in the greater area is physical.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Richard's comment <o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div style='margin-left:30.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>   "(FWIW, the current distinction between highway=trunk and highway=primary in<br>the US seems so arbitrary that I actually render them both the same for<a href="http://cycle.travel" target="_blank"> cycle.travel</a>)" <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>suggests forcefully that our current  rule for US is NOT working. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Looking at states i'm more familiar with than AZ, Massachusetts [1] and Maine [2] , these NHS roads are pretty much what the locals think of as the main connections between cities/regions, which is a reasonable "human" translation of "trunk".  <br><br>I do see some "MAP-21 NHS Principal Arterials" that are feeders to the presumed trunks, unclear if they deserve trunk status. I also see some interesting omissions, US20, MA30, MA9 are not included end to end, but only selectively.  But if that means federal funding is concentrated on portions of US20 that are in NHS at expense of those not, then they will be physically different despite same signage.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>This proposal is better than what we have now -- in rural areas at least .<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>( </span>​<span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>I love that FHWA has these maps posted publicly. 35 years ago i produced a similar state-and-city atlas for a DOT rail safety office </span>​<span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>... with a plotter and color Xerox[tm] copier.</span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> </span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> Lost to history.<br>personal to Volker - thanks for pointing these out to me ! )<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><br clear=all><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>[0] <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Highway_System_(United_States)">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Highway_System_(United_States)</a> <br></span>​<span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>[1] <a href="http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/planning/national_highway_system/nhs_maps/massachusetts/ma_massachusetts.pdf">http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/planning/national_highway_system/nhs_maps/massachusetts/ma_massachusetts.pdf</a></span>​<span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>​<span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>[2] <a href="http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/planning/national_highway_system/nhs_maps/maine/me_Maine.pdf">http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/planning/national_highway_system/nhs_maps/maine/me_Maine.pdf</a> <br><br></span>​<span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><br>-- <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Bill Ricker<br><a href="mailto:bill.n1vux@gmail.com" target="_blank">bill.n1vux@gmail.com</a><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/n1vux" target="_blank">https://www.linkedin.com/in/n1vux</a> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>