<div dir="ltr"><div>
<span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:16px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">+ I grew up in an area with these kinds of roads and I don't think</span><br style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:16px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:16px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">+ they're technically compacted.</span> <br></div><div><br></div>Same here - "dirt roads", as we used to call them, are not compacted except by vehicles driving on them. I learned the term "compacted" in OSM. In my area, NY State and Alaska, the gravel is what's known as pit run, or is dug from gravel quarries, spread out with a road-grader and not normally compacted. Once or twice a year, a road-grader goes out and scrapes the surface to remove ruts and potholes. <div><br></div><div>I often use surface=unpaved now just to avoid controversy and use surface=ground when the surface has not been constructed from fill— people simply drive on a road that's been cut through an area. </div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 6:22 AM, James Umbanhowar <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jumbanho@gmail.com" target="_blank">jumbanho@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I grew up in an area with these kinds of roads and I don't think<br>
they're technically compacted. The gravel, which is crushed<br>
limerstone, is laid down and due to its chemical properties creates a<br>
smooth surface after several months of traffic.<br>
<br>
I've used surface=gravel; gravel=crushed_limestone in my area. I don't<br>
get the gravel being 4-8 cm, that seems a wikierror.<br>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
James<br>
</font></span><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br>
On Wed, 2018-04-18 at 17:19 -0500, Toby Murray wrote:<br>
> I recently bought a gravel bicycle to ride on the many gravel roads<br>
> in<br>
> Kansas. Like this one:<br>
> <a href="https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=nYO4JI46L0SWzNAQlLT4kA&focus=phot" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.mapillary.com/app/<wbr>?pKey=nYO4JI46L0SWzNAQlLT4kA&<wbr>focus=phot</a><br>
> o<br>
> <br>
> First question: What would you call this road? Obviously I am calling<br>
> it a "gravel road" but a couple of people have said they would call<br>
> it<br>
> a "dirt road" so I'm curious if there are any other common terms to<br>
> describe this type of road in different regions of the US.<br>
> <br>
> Second question: How would you tag this road? There is a<br>
> surface=gravel tag that is in pretty common usage in Kansas and<br>
> neighboring states. However looking at the wiki page for the surface<br>
> tag[1], this is not wiki-correct. According to that page<br>
> surface=gravel is to be used for large rocks (4-8cm) that are laid<br>
> down loosely like those typically used as ballast on railroad beds. I<br>
> believe The Mapillary picture I linked to would be considered<br>
> surface=compacted according to the wiki because the rocks are much<br>
> smaller and the surface is stabilized with a binding agent. There is<br>
> a<br>
> big difference between the two when it comes to bicycle riding.<br>
> Railroad ballast is bone jarring and flat tire inducing whereas<br>
> gravel<br>
> roads are pretty manageable on the right kind of bike.<br>
> <br>
> But If you call something a "gravel road" and there is a "gravel"<br>
> option in the editor preset for the surface tag, people are going to<br>
> choose the gravel option and not look for "compacted" since that is<br>
> not a common term here. I assume it is a more common term in the UK<br>
> and that is why it is used in OSM.<br>
> <br>
> And lastly there are trails that are surfaced with a similar material<br>
> but crushed to a smaller size like here:<br>
> <a href="https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=iQNqP-dfQ-Rm6AD9REMsgQ&focus=phot" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.mapillary.com/app/<wbr>?pKey=iQNqP-dfQ-Rm6AD9REMsgQ&<wbr>focus=phot</a><br>
> o<br>
> <br>
> I'm trying to decide if that is better as surface=compacted or<br>
> surface=fine_gravel although fine_gravel seems to be a slightly<br>
> different process from what I see on the wiki.<br>
> <br>
> Maybe this should be directed at the tagging list but I thought I<br>
> would get thoughts from the US community since we seem to be the ones<br>
> using the tag incorrectly (according to the wiki)<br>
> <br>
> [1] <a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:surface" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://wiki.openstreetmap.<wbr>org/wiki/Key:surface</a><br>
> <br>
> Toby<br>
> <br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr">Dave Swarthout<br>Homer, Alaska<br>Chiang Mai, Thailand<br>Travel Blog at <a href="http://dswarthout.blogspot.com" target="_blank">http://dswarthout.blogspot.com</a></div></div>
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