<html><head></head><body>The reason you don't get it is because you are not listening. Nobody has said the motorway tagging should continue through the intersection. The debate is entirely about where the classification change takes place. There are several instances in Arkansas where a motorway ends similarly. In AHTD's highway log, they cease to be a motorway wherever legal access control or the character of the road changes. Sometimes they do make the demarcation at an interchange (usually at the point where the intersecting roadway crosses) when the continuation is a short distance.<br><br>Given Arkansas law, the state's view is nearly always easily seen from speed limit signs thanks to very specific per se speed limits based on highway classification. Sadly (for this particular discussion), Oklahoma doesn't, though speed limit changes do often accompany clear changes in roadway classification.<br><br>The overall point being that there are in fact times when classification changes at a place other than an interchange.<br><br>It's been many years, but I recall there being a speed limit reduction northbound coming down the hill to the intersection in question. And again, I fail to see how adding an intersection magically changed the 3/4 of a mile between Apache and where the median disappears to accommodate the Gilcrease intersection. (I incorrectly called the extension past the Tisdale Apache in a previous message. I forget the actual name, west of the Tisdale, but it has one that is not Gilcrease)<br><br>It would be nice if you would stop acting as if there is no room for reasonable people to have differing opinions on this since even various state governments have differing opinions on the matter. It's mildly rude to pretend that yours is the only logical possibility, especially when several people have considered your argument and still don't agree.<br><br>All that said, at the moment you're the only person currently local to the instant case, so given the guideline that encourages us to defer to local mappers if their edits aren't broken in some technical way or obviously depart from reality, you're more than welcome to tag it the way you did if you like.<br><br>Still, it was a change from what another local had tagged originally. The TIGER import became irrelevant in relation to this discussion when someone took the time to add the other carriageway. This isn't a situation where the edit in question was being made to a way that was created by the TIGER import and not touched by anybody except a few bots since, so the norms surrounding that scenario aren't applicable.<br><br>-Nathan<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On December 2, 2018 5:03:31 PM EST, Paul Johnson <baloo@ursamundi.org> wrote:<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div dir="ltr">The commonly accepted definition of freeways in the US excludes surface junctions, whereas expressways (trunks) does include intersections. I honestly am surprised a group of roadgeeks isn't more attuned to this distinction.</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Sun, Dec 2, 2018 at 3:15 PM Adam Franco <<a href="mailto:adamfranco@gmail.com">adamfranco@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">On Sun, Dec 2, 2018 at 1:36 AM Paul Johnson <<a href="mailto:baloo@ursamundi.org" target="_blank">baloo@ursamundi.org</a>> wrote:<br><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Sun, Dec 2, 2018 at 12:30 AM Bryan Housel <<a href="mailto:bhousel@gmail.com" target="_blank">bhousel@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div><div>I do understand your point, but a dozen or so people on talk-us and the six or so people on that changeset 64919426 </div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Well, 1 person, an AA roads troll and like 5 sockpuppets. There's also a number of people in this thread that do agree with me.<br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div><div>discussion all disagree with you. Is there nothing that would make you reconsider? </div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Get the commonly used definition of a freeway changed to include intersections. Good luck!</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>Since you are asking for more declaration of support/opposition, I'm a relatively disinterested-in-motorways mapper that has been following along with this thread. Paul, I think your read of a motorway definition is overly rigid and I agree with Richie, Bryan, and the others that a motorway classification may continue beyond the last interchange. <br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote">If one is traveling past the last interchange one may be traveling in a "motorway zone" where high speeds, grade separation of crossing roads, dual carriageway, etc all continue to exist. As Richie pointed out, there will be some place where "caution freeway ends", "intersection ahead" or slowing speed limit signage indicates a transition out of the motorway zone to something else. That seems like a vastly more appropriate place to change the tagging from motorway to trunk/primary. Choosing the point of the last interchange doesn't make sense as there may be many miles on both sides of the last interchange where the roadway is functionally the same -- where standing and looking at the road it shows all of the characteristics of a motorway. It is confusing to think that an at-grade intersection far over the horizon would force a long final segment of road to change classification.<br></div></div>
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