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Joseph, I'm not stuck on class 27, but as you say, that fits the
definition on the wiki. I should probably look for other specific
protection in the attributes and translate that somehow. Mostly
it's just grazing and recreation land. Anything such as wilderness
or monument would definitely be tagged as such.<br>
<br>
Martijn, Gaia is not available on a Garmin, or on a PC. It also
costs $40 a yr. Why do you trust Gaia as an authoritative source?
How often do they update from government sources? BLM boundaries
do not change very often. Probably less often than city/town
boundaries. For an authoritative source, I have national forest
maps that are 10 - 20 years old. A download today from a federal
database is way better than that and in 5 years will probably still
be just as good. In relatively sparsely populated areas, on the
ground verification does not work as well as it does in the city.
If we make OSM more useful for more people then more folks will get
involved. <br>
<br>
Michael, You bring up some good questions which I don't have the
answer for yet. I would get started with what you call the low
road, state sized or smaller pieces at a time. A quick look at the
boundaries around me show none that follow a watercourse or a ridge,
they are all straight lines and and square corners. The extraneous
ways at state boundaries look like artifacts from cutting up a
larger database into state size chunks. There was no polygon, or a
skinny polygon associated with those artifacts. I'm guessing that
there is BLM land in the adjacent state.<br>
<br>
Dave, Thanks for being a voice of reason! <br>
<br>
Brad<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/6/19 3:36 AM, Dave Swarthout
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAKWFYhX_a-F4uTB6bQYdnrygRtKVu=0PRtw+RNvMDm+kd8Jz6g@mail.gmail.com">
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<div dir="ltr">
<div>Ian Dees wrote:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>>"Those things shouldn't be in OSM either"</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Are you implying that because such boundaries (National
Forests, National Parks and National Wildlife Refuges) are
non-verifiable by OSM mappers they don't belong in OSM? If so,
wow!<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I live in Alaska where about 60% of the land area is
included in one or the other of these categories and I firmly
believe they must be included in OSM. No, the boundaries
aren't verifiable nor are they particularly accurate but
actually nothing we put into OSM is accurate within several
meters at best. If I add a National Wildlife Refuge having a
total area of thousands of sq. kilometers and boundary errors
amount to a few dozen sq km, for example, that doesn't bother
me one bit. At least it's there for people to see. I'm really
not looking for super accuracy; what I want are the visible
outlines of those protected areas, be they rough estimates or
not. OSM makes no warranty concerning accuracy. If you want to
build a home near a NP or NWR boundary you'll need a surveyor;
our rough boundaries won't serve for that purpose.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Can you elaborate on your statement, please?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Dave<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">On Sun, Jan 6, 2019 at 2:05 PM Martijn van Exel
<<a href="mailto:m@rtijn.org" moz-do-not-send="true">m@rtijn.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;">Brad — I make use of
BLM / NPS / NF boundary data a lot too. I use Gaia GPS for
this, which overlays this data nicely with what’s in OSM[1].
There are lots of other outdoor apps that do the same. I
prefer this data live outside of OSM as well for similar
reasons as Ian stated. Knowing whether land is public or
private or whether it’s inside or outside a NP, is important
to me when I’m in the outdoors. I would much rather rely on
an authoritative definition of these boundaries, than on
whatever happens to be in OSM. Since there is no
on-the-ground verifiability, boundary data is prone to
growing stale, as you can see happening with census place
boundaries. Unreliable data in this case is worse than no
data at all.
<div>If you’re looking to make a great impact on the map as
an outdoors user, I would suggest mapping things you know
and things you observe when you’re out there. Countless
times have I been out in the middle of nowhere, to find
that some mapper before me added a landmark, a water
source, or something else that really helped me. That is
what I like to pay forward.</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Martijn</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>[1] <a href="https://www.gaiagps.com/offroad/#maps"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.gaiagps.com/offroad/#maps</a> </div>
<div>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On Jan 5, 2019, at 8:43 PM, brad <<a
href="mailto:bradhaack@fastmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">bradhaack@fastmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br
class="gmail-m_3774089849952339796Apple-interchange-newline">
<div>
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> Ian, <br>
I want to import this data because I think its
important for a complete map. We have
national forest, wilderness and national park
boundaries in OSM! This is no different.
If you look at many maps they show all of
them.<br>
<br>
I'd like it to show up on any map that I
use. I'm working on a 'better' version for
garmin using mkgmap. I hope it gets rendered
with OpenAndroMaps too. I haven't used the
onine <a href="http://osm.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">osm.org</a>
map very much.<br>
<br>
I am excited to participate and improve OSM
and in my opinion this is a big gap in the OSM
database. Where I live, we don't use OSM for
building footprints, we use it to find our way
in the national forest, the BLM land and the
national parks. It's very useful to know
what is public or private land.<br>
<br>
Brad <br>
<br>
<div
class="gmail-m_3774089849952339796moz-cite-prefix">On
1/5/19 8:19 PM, Ian Dees wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Hi Brad, thanks for proposing this
import and posting it here.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I would strongly prefer that we not
import boundaries like this into OSM.
Boundaries of all sorts are almost
impossible to verify with OSM's "on the
ground" rule, but BLM boundaries in
particular are such an edge case (they
have no other analog in the world,
really) and almost never have apparent
markings on the ground to check. Since
these boundaries aren't visible, this
data can never be improved by an
OpenStreetMap contributor. The
boundaries are defined by the
government, and any sort of change to
them would make them diverge from the
official source.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>But having said that, I'm curious why
you wanted to import this data? Did you
want to have it show up on the <a
href="http://osm.org/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">osm.org</a>
map? Are you trying to build a custom
map? Or are you excited to participate
and improve OSM? If it's the latter,
there's lots of other data that is a
better fit to import into OSM: address
points and building footprints come to
mind, for example.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-Ian</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">On Sat, Jan 5, 2019 at
9:03 PM brad <<a
href="mailto:bradhaack@fastmail.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">bradhaack@fastmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">I'd
like to import BLM (US Bureau of Land
Management) boundaries into <br>
OSM. This is not an automated
import as you can see from my
workflow.<br>
<br>
Workflow:<br>
Download shape file from PADUS (1
state at a time): <br>
<a
href="https://gapanalysis.usgs.gov/padus/data/download/"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://gapanalysis.usgs.gov/padus/data/download/</a><br>
Load into Qgis and filter for BLM
boundaries<br>
Clean up as necessary (there are some
extraneous ways at state <br>
boundaries & elsewhere)<br>
<br>
Convert to OSM with ogr2osm and the
following tags<br>
tags.update({'type':'boundary'})<br>
tags.update({'boundary':'protected_area'})<br>
tags.update({'operator':'BLM'})<br>
tags.update({'ownership':'national'})<br>
tags.update({'protect_class':'27'})<br>
tags.update({'source':'US BLM'})<br>
use the shapefile attribute
'Unit_Nm' as the name<br>
<br>
Import with JOSM<br>
<br>
The San Luis unit (CO) is here for
your inspection.<br>
<a
href="https://www.dropbox.com/s/qxv5gny2396ewki/sanLuisBLM.osm?dl=0"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.dropbox.com/s/qxv5gny2396ewki/sanLuisBLM.osm?dl=0</a><br>
<br>
Comments?<br>
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<br>
-- <br>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">Dave Swarthout<br>
Homer, Alaska<br>
Chiang Mai, Thailand<br>
Travel Blog at <a href="http://dswarthout.blogspot.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://dswarthout.blogspot.com</a></div>
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