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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 24/09/2020 00:00, Paul Johnson
wrote:<br>
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<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Sep 23, 2020 at 5:56
PM Andy Townsend <<a href="mailto:ajt1047@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">ajt1047@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
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<div>On 23/09/2020 23:01, Paul Johnson wrote:<br>
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<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Sep 23,
2020 at 4:37 PM stevea <<a
href="mailto:steveaOSM@softworkers.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">steveaOSM@softworkers.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
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<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
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<<a href="mailto:baloo@ursamundi.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">baloo@ursamundi.org</a>>
wrote: <br>
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<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
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Tagging route information on ways. It's about a
decade too long at this point for ref=* on a way
to be completely disconnected from the entity the
tag applies to: That's why route relations
exist. Biggest problem child on this at the
moment: OSM's own tilesets. Let's drop rendering
for ref=* on ways and just render the route
relations already, this and multipolygons are why
relations came to exist in the first place.<br>
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Yes, 100% agreement. I think this is simply pure
inertia (the kind that says "broken process") on
the part of renderers.<br>
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Can anybody (renderer authors included, maybe even
especially) are welcome to offer reasons why "the
old machinery" remains in place? Are there legacy
use cases that remain unclear to the wider
community? Please tell us here, if so.<br>
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<p>The US is unusual in that it doesn't have a single ref
per section of road. Most places in OSM map what they
see on the ground, and the current OSM Carto rendering
works just fine for them</p>
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<div>Right up until there's more than one kind of route on the
way. <br>
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<p>No-one's disputing that this is a major problem for mappers in
the US - I'm just saying that it's really not a major problem in
most other places. That doesn't make it any less of a problem in
the US but does help to explain why people elsewhere seem not to
see it as a problem.<br>
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<p>It's not strictly a Mapnik problem. It's certainly
possible to render information from relations in Mapnik
(I've done it, for different sorts of relations, and
written diary entries about it). There are a couple of
tricky bits* though:</p>
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<li>You'd need to derive the shields from the ref and
the road itself from the way, and you're going to get
some edge cases where they "don't seem to match".</li>
<li>I expect that it would be _really_ difficult to
render refs from relations in the one country where
that's needed and refs from ways in the other
190-odd. The OSM style is a global style, and that
means that local edge cases (which is what the US is
here) can't get the "special-case handling" that might
be nice.</li>
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<div>There's no reason the rest of the world shouldn't be
mapping routes this way. For the reason I gave above.</div>
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<p>By all means try and persuade the entire rest of the world to do
things differently, but I suspect that that will be unlikely to
succeed when the problem you're trying to solve isn't visible
there.</p>
<p>That's why I suggested trying other approaches that would at
least enable people in the US to see route refs rendered as they
would expect them to be.</p>
<p>Best Regards,</p>
<p>Andy</p>
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