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That road connects to a town of about 2000. That really seems like
a stretch for a trunk road. In my read of the wiki, it doesn't
pass. <br>
From the wiki: "Trunk- The most important roads in a country's
system that aren't motorways. (Need not necessarily be a divided
highway.)
"<br>
Even if it's the only one in the area, it isn't one of the most
important roads in the country. <br>
Secondary at best. wiki: "(Often link towns)"<br>
<br>
Maybe it's a bad example<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/18/21 6:46 PM, Brian M.
Sperlongano wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAMrfQx1yg4y5Fb0HWTaTHsO69uJbwyeo5+UME3+69xQ_7GVcUg@mail.gmail.com">
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<div dir="ltr">
<div>The link below[1] is a picture of the A87 highway in the
Scottish highlands. It's not Alaska, but it's one of the most
remote parts of the UK and is a trunk highway in the British
system. In the British classification system (and in OSM
generally), there is no requirement that trunk roads have
expressway-like characteristics, simply that they're the most
important non-motorway road in a particular area.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>[1] <a
href="https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/vLZ7XC6LZj9LZl9XentKrA"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/vLZ7XC6LZj9LZl9XentKrA</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Here's another photo[2] from just down the road. On the
right you'll note a mailbox and a gravel driveway leading to
someone's house:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>[2] <a
href="https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/OAzXBq0zSXeicY8F50oXow"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/OAzXBq0zSXeicY8F50oXow</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The British had no problem recognizing that the most
important roads in a remote area will be of a much lower
physical quality than the most important road in built-up
areas. And thus, a low zoom map of Scotland[3] meaningfully
shows the network of roads that exists, even though those
roads are of lower quality than what you might find in the
cities.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>[3] <a
href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=7/56.845/-4.166"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=7/56.845/-4.166</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Personally, I think it's perfectly fine that a "high
importance" road in Alaska looks different from a "high
importance" road in New York City.</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, May 18, 2021 at 8:17
PM Dave Swarthout <<a href="mailto:daveswarthout@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">daveswarthout@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Hell, the highway classification situation in Alaska
drives me nuts. A few years ago, someone came along and
promoted all the Primary highways in Alaska to Trunk
because they connect major population centers. But these
highways have no other characteristic required of a trunk
road. They are not dual carriageways, have hundreds of
driveways, cross streets, traffic signals and RR grade
crossings. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Good luck with getting this all worked out.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, May 18, 2021 at
3:08 PM Kevin Kenny <<a
href="mailto:kevin.b.kenny@gmail.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">kevin.b.kenny@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, May 18, 2021
at 1:47 PM Russell Nelson <<a
href="mailto:nelson@crynwr.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">nelson@crynwr.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br>
On 5/17/21 5:54 PM, Brian M. Sperlongano wrote:<br>
> State-specific criteria have been drafted so
far for: MA, MS, NH, RI, <br>
> VT, TX, and WA.<br>
><br>
> In order to demonstrate what the new
classification would look like on <br>
> the map, the New England mappers have put
together a temporary live <br>
> demo[2] which shows what this new arrangement
would look like at the <br>
> motorway and trunk level.<br>
<br>
This looks tolerable. I wonder how it would be
applied in NY? There are <br>
several dead-end trunk roads. This seems wrong to
me. Also, the entirety <br>
of the Adirondack Park is empty, which doesn't work
for any community <br>
north of the park.</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The definition of 'trunk road' still appears to
be 'main route between regionally important
population centers'. What is 'regionally important'
in northeastern New York will depend, I suppose, on
what granularity you consider for 'region'. I
suspect that OSM intends 'region' to be something
along the lines of 'United States' if not 'North
America', rather than something like 'Saint Lawrence
County'. For that reason, I've been doing some rough
sketches (nothing in Brian's server yet) of what the
network might look like in eastern NY. In order to
have a reasonably broadly applicable definition of
'population center' I've been using 'incorporated
community or CDP > 25k inhabitants' (something of
an arbitrary cutoff).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It makes sense to me that there are no trunk
roads inside the Adirondack Park apart from the
Northway. There's nothing in the park for a trunk to
serve. Are Tupper Lake, Ticonderoga, Dannemora,
Saranac Lake/Harrietstown, or Lake Placid/North Elba
'population centers?" </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> I'm finding that even on the north side of the
park the population centers that would define the
trunk roads are pretty far apart: Watertown, Orrawa,
Cornwall, Montréal, Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu,
Burlington. (I haven't dug deep into the
populations of lesser towns on the Canadian side to
see if anything else pops up.)<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If we use 'part of the main route joining
communities >25k population' as a working
definition of 'trunk', then a few corner cases pop
up: NY8, inside the park, appears so that Burlington
will be linked with Utica, for instance. There
appears to be no 'main route' between Cornwall and
Utica; I'm not all that comfortable with promoting
minor county roads into trunks! You're nearer to
there than I am - how _do_ you connect Cornwall with
anywhere else?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If we go by FHWA classifications, NY30 and NY3
appear at least in part, but NY8 disappears. The
suburban arterials of NY85 and NY32 would end in
Bethlehem, because there's no 'population center'
beyond there for them to serve. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I think it's entirely acceptable for trunks to
dead-end where the reason for their existence ends.
Thus, NY27 would be a trunk into Southampton
(population >25k) but downgraded past there
because there's no longer a large community beyond
that. The key thing is that we shouldn't have
isolated islands of trunk roads appearing and
disappearing simply because physical characteristics
aren't up to spec on short sections.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Going with a tighter definition of 'population
center' starts giving perverse results in both New
York and New England. For instance 'any county seat
is a population center' promotes some Vermont
villages of <1000 inhabitants, and in
northeastern New York has the effect of promoting
Plattsburgh, Elizabethtown, Malone, Lake Pleasant,
Lowville, Canton and Fort Edward - and I'm not sure
I'm comfortable with declaring any of those
communities to be a 'regionally important population
center!' Sorry, Potsdam, but at least you get to
keep US 11 (because it joins Burlington with
Watertown).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We're still struggling with the density extremes
of the Big City and the Big Woods, so your input is
welcome!</div>
</div>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div dir="ltr">73 de ke9tv/2, Kevin</div>
</div>
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<br>
-- <br>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">Dave Swarthout<br>
Homer, Alaska<br>
Chiang Mai, Thailand<br>
Travel Blog at <a href="http://dswarthout.blogspot.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://dswarthout.blogspot.com</a></div>
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