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<div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Nov 9, 2021, 17:30 by miketho16@gmail.com:<br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div><br></div><div class=""><div class="" dir="ltr">On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 8:55 AM Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-us <<a href="mailto:talk-us@openstreetmap.org" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">talk-us@openstreetmap.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class=""><div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Nov 8, 2021, 18:07 by <a target="_blank" href="mailto:zelonewolf@gmail.com" rel="noopener noreferrer">zelonewolf@gmail.com</a>:<br></div><blockquote style="border-left:1px solid rgb(147,163,184);padding-left:10px;margin-left:5px"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div><br></div><div><div dir="ltr">On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 11:49 AM Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-us <<a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="mailto:talk-us@openstreetmap.org">talk-us@openstreetmap.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div><br></div><div>Nov 8, 2021, 13:18 by <a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" href="mailto:zelonewolf@gmail.com">zelonewolf@gmail.com</a>:<br></div><blockquote style="border-left:1px solid rgb(147,163,184);padding-left:10px;margin-left:5px"><div dir="ltr"><div>I don't have a problem with the large size of the bounding box, as it is clear from the changeset description what the change is, and it is topically consistent (i.e. - it's not a changeset with a park in New York, an ice cream shop in Albuquerque, and a river in St. Louis!).<br></div><div><br></div><div>I *DO* have a problem with the change itself, as name:en is redundant when the name is already in English. The data consumers that I'm familiar with (namely, OpenMapTiles, and my own service) that are tasked with extracting names in English are perfectly capable of looking for name:en first, and then falling back to name if name:en is not present. So IMO, this is tag bloat. I have added a changeset comment requesting an explanation for the change and will link to this discussion.<br></div></div></blockquote><div dir="auto">It is not really redundant as soon as you make a bit more interesting name display.<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">if someone would want to display names in English but in case of English name being<br></div><div dir="auto">unavailable, show German name (which would be preferred over say "京市北")<br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>That's a reasonable use case that I hadn't considered. It does still feel a bit redundant but I can accept that explanation. It is probably worth adding a revision to the name=* wiki page expressing this.<br></div></div></div></blockquote><div dir="auto">It is already, in fact I added this already as usefulness of this info is quite surprising.<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">For example it surprised me when I initially implemented this fallback and<br></div><div dir="auto">started getting German names for cities in Poland (typical case of software doing<br></div><div dir="auto">what instructed, not what intended).<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">So I am not surprised that it is not known more widely.<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><a target="_blank" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Names#Repeating_name_with_language_specific_tag" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Names#Repeating_name_with_language_specific_tag</a><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Feel free to edit it if something is poorly written there, maybe it should be also qualified<br></div><div dir="auto">that such explicit language tagging is not fully accepted.<br></div></div></blockquote><div>I still do not see the value in this mechanical edit which, as I understand it, simply copied the value of the name tag to name:en for all of the cities in the US. If necessary the data user/consumer could have done the same thing.<br></div></div></div></blockquote><div dir="auto">The difference is that for human it is obvious "oh, cities in USA are all having name<br></div><div dir="auto">key in English" (if that is not blindingly obvious and can be wrong - then <br></div><div dir="auto">edit definitely should be reverted).<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><div dir="auto">But while such logic like "if city in USA, then copy name to name:en" can be applied<br></div><div>on its own by data consumers, rather by expressing it in OSM data it:<br></div></div><div dir="auto">- needs to applied by every single data consumer<br></div><div dir="auto">- is not always actually possible to implement it<br></div><div dir="auto">- will be added only after someone spots that cities in USA unexpectedly<br></div><div dir="auto">show with German/Polish/whatever labels for specific data consumer<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">That above was more general. Obviously edit can be reverted due to not <br></div><div dir="auto">following rules. Or risk of poor data, I am unable to fully judge this part.<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I just wanted to explain why such apparently pointless duplication can make sense<br></div><div dir="auto">and can make OSM data more useful.<br></div> </body>
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