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<p>Hi everyone,</p>
<p>First - a caveat - I've never been to Louisiana, and much of this
email is based on tidying up some similar issues in New Jersey at
the weekend (at <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/117636871">https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/117636871</a>
and following). However, the "duplicate inner polygon" issue was
very much present there.</p>
<p>The biggest import issues (apart from the actual "golf fixing"
that I was trying to do) that I had wasn't "duplicate inner
polygons" (in any editor it's easy to move them together), they
were instead:</p>
<ul>
<li>In some cases the landuse imports no longer represented
reality (a recreation ground that wasn't; woods that had been
completely been remodeled for a golf course)</li>
<li>In other cases it looked like the import misclassified what
was not normally or not currently wetland as "wetland" in OSM -
I couldn't see any break in the trees. Maybe the "wetland"
areas just had some sort of legal protection on them or some
sort of flood risk?</li>
<li>Some of the relations involved were very, very silly.
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5884686">https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5884686</a> for example is
clearly NOT one feature, and (as noted previously) not, or at
least not always, marsh.</li>
</ul>
<p>Given all that, duplicate inner polygons is the last problem that
I'd worry about here.</p>
<p>All that said, LA is clearly not NJ, and wetland areas on the
coast are much more likely to be actual wetland. Also some areas
of LA (at random,
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/29.4707/-89.9440">https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/29.4707/-89.9440</a> ) clearly
have been tidied up, mostly match the available imagery, and the
available imagery sources mostly agree amongst themselves.<br>
</p>
<p>Can you publish a list of issues in addition to the count on
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_edits/TTmechanicalupdates/Fix_issue_with_duplicated_inner_polygons_in_United_States">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_edits/TTmechanicalupdates/Fix_issue_with_duplicated_inner_polygons_in_United_States</a>
so that people can assess what you are actually trying to "fix"?
That way, people will be able to see whether you'd just be
changing "easily detectable broken data" into "less easily
detectable broken data, or actually doing anything worthwhile. </p>
<p>Best Regards,</p>
<p>Andy<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 21/02/2022 11:10, TomTom OSM wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
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<p><span lang="EN-US">Hello everyone!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US">Let us know if you have any more feedback.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US">If there are no more suggestions from your
side, we will happily start the test run in the state of
Louisiana as originally planned.
<span class="inline-comment-marker">After this, you’ll be
able to take a look at all the changesets and see the
outcome of our automated action. We will also keep you
updated on the progress of our actions in this thread.</span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US">We are ready to start on Thursday
2/24/2022. Does this timing work for you?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US">Looking forward to hearing from you.<br>
</span>Marjan<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
lang="EN-US"> Eric Ladner <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:eric.ladner@gmail.com"><eric.ladner@gmail.com></a>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 17, 2022 5:06 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Eric Patrick <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:txemt1@gmail.com"><txemt1@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> TomTom OSM <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:OSM@tomtom.com"><OSM@tomtom.com></a>; Minh
Nguyen <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:minh@nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us"><minh@nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us></a>;
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:talk-us@openstreetmap.org">talk-us@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Talk-us] [bot] Proposal to fix
issue with duplicated inner polygons in the United
States<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" align="left">
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1.5pt"><br>
</td>
<td style="width:100.0%;background:#EAEAEA;padding:5.25pt
3.75pt 5.25pt 11.25pt" width="100%">
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<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:2.25pt;mso-element-wrap:around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:column;mso-height-rule:exactly"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Segoe
UI",sans-serif;color:#212121">You don't often
get email from
<a href="mailto:eric.ladner@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">eric.ladner@gmail.com</a>.
<a
href="http://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification"
moz-do-not-send="true">
Learn why this is important</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</td>
<td style="width:56.25pt;background:#EAEAEA;padding:5.25pt
3.75pt 5.25pt 3.75pt;align:left" width="75">
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">It's a daunting task to update
thousands of miles of coastline, bays, rivers, etc., after
a weather event, esp. when the satellite imagery lags by
months or years.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Probably a "best-effort" thing.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 7:17 PM Eric
Patrick <<a href="mailto:txemt1@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">txemt1@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Will these be updated after every
hurricane comes through and changes the coastline?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Feb 15, 2022 at 2:24 PM
Eric Ladner <<a
href="mailto:eric.ladner@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">eric.ladner@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC
1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Having experience with editing
some of the Lousiana coastal areas, it's several
failed, incomplete, and possibly overlapping NHD
imports with a mess of invalid multi-polygons,
unclosed features, and any other error you can
think of.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I would recommend
against turning the bot loose on that geometry
until simpler test cases are attempted.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Feb 15, 2022 at 5:20
AM TomTom OSM <<a
href="mailto:OSM@tomtom.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">OSM@tomtom.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Minh,<br>
<br>
Thank you for your kind words, and valuable
feedback!<br>
<br>
I passed your suggestions to my team. They will
take a closer look at them, and I'll get back
with more details in a while.<br>
<br>
Kind regards,<br>
Marjan<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Minh Nguyen <<a
href="mailto:minh@nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">minh@nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us</a>>
<br>
Sent: Friday, February 11, 2022 6:58 PM<br>
To: <a href="mailto:talk-us@openstreetmap.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">talk-us@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Talk-us] [bot] Proposal to fix
issue with duplicated inner polygons in the
United States<br>
<br>
[You don't often get email from <a
href="mailto:minh@nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">
minh@nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us</a>. Learn why
this is important at <a
href="http://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">
http://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification</a>.]<br>
<br>
Vào lúc 04:25 2022-02-08, TomTom OSM đã viết:<br>
> We propose to do a test run by updating
invalid polygons in the <br>
> Louisiana state, where 5,541 cases are
logged by the Osmose rule. Per <br>
> the Automated Edits code of conduct, we
will wait for your feedback <br>
> before we begin.<br>
<br>
Hi Marjan, at a glance, it looks like many of
the issues involve multipolygons imported from
NHD, since Louisiana has a very complex
coastline and system of bayous. [1][2] I think
many of us would welcome help cleaning up old
NHD imports, particularly regarding topology
issues.<br>
<br>
If you later move on to other states, you may
need to pay additional attention to occurrences
of this warning that don't only involve natural
multipolygons. For example, it's possible that a
natural feature might be coincident to an
enclave of a boundary relation. I'm unsure if
mappers would prefer the boundary relation to be
conflated with the natural feature or kept
separate from it.<br>
<br>
[1] <a
href="https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwiki.openstreetmap.org%2Fwiki%2FNational_Hydrography_Dataset&data=04%7C01%7COSM%40tomtom.com%7C0dfe9b7763fc4528d26108d9f22f690d%7C374f80267b544a3ab87d328fa26ec10d%7C0%7C0%7C637807107711096562%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=rA4ZtYJcp27Jwd5vPAcWe9OQQ0iFd18GJrbN6EKqfPU%3D&reserved=0"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwiki.openstreetmap.org%2Fwiki%2FNational_Hydrography_Dataset&data=04%7C01%7Cosm%40tomtom.com%7Ca2065442e7e14a5f7f7408d9ed886316%7C374f80267b544a3ab87d328fa26ec10d%7C0%7C0%7C637801992953769114%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=DdeDNtg2FTWBWHq5B3nViP%2BQi7M8OqEb5kylsBUBcEg%3D&reserved=0</a><br>
[2]<br>
<a
href="https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fosmose.openstreetmap.fr%2Fen%2Fissues%2Fopen%3Fsource%3D10139%26item%3D1170%26class%3D1%26limit%3D500&data=04%7C01%7COSM%40tomtom.com%7C0dfe9b7763fc4528d26108d9f22f690d%7C374f80267b544a3ab87d328fa26ec10d%7C0%7C0%7C637807107711096562%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=jsp06%2FkLhhBC3AglOKak9nzwaYZNlIP0lwJBdk1%2B%2F%2B0%3D&reserved=0"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fosmose.openstreetmap.fr%2Fen%2Fissues%2Fopen%3Fsource%3D10139%26item%3D1170%26class%3D1%26limit%3D500&data=04%7C01%7Cosm%40tomtom.com%7Ca2065442e7e14a5f7f7408d9ed886316%7C374f80267b544a3ab87d328fa26ec10d%7C0%7C0%7C637801992953769114%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=wmlkJzpsSzLtPa36I%2B6TXqXJyG%2BPMH%2Brqn4eA2%2B13X0%3D&reserved=0</a><br>
<br>
--<br>
<a href="mailto:minh@nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">minh@nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Eric Ladner<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
Talk-us mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Talk-us@openstreetmap.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">Talk-us@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
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target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Eric Ladner<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Talk-us mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Talk-us@openstreetmap.org">Talk-us@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us</a>
</pre>
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