[OSM-talk] immutable=yes Fwd: DEC Lands
russ at cloudmade.com
Mon Mar 9 18:25:24 GMT 2009
Earlier, I proposed that certain datasets should be immutable; whether
by policy or mechanism as needed. I propose importing the NYS DEC
Lands as an immutable set of data. If you read this exchange with
Robert Morrell, you can see why they feel that NO changes AT ALL are
appropriate. I agree with them. This dataset constitutes a legal
description of the property managed by the NYS Department of
Environmental Conservation, and changes by any OSM editor are not
consistent with the nature of the data.
How do people feel about me importing this data (with all of their
metadata), adding an immutable=yes tag, with the intent of tracking
their dataset, and deleting --outright-- any changes made by OSM
Begin forwarded message:
> From: Robert Morrell <ramorrel at gw.dec.state.ny.us>
> Date: March 9, 2009 2:06:13 PM EDT
> To: Russ Nelson <russ at cloudmade.com>
> Cc: Kurt Swartz <kcswartz at gw.dec.state.ny.us>, Larry Alber <lalber at gw.dec.state.ny.us
> Subject: Re: DEC Lands
> There is no "creativity" in mapping or displaying of Public
> owned land. This isn't art, it's legal land rights that impact
> private land owners.
> On what bases would someone with no formal training, no legal deed
> description, or survey map have to determine if a State boundary is
> correct or incorrect. Simply holding a GPS receiver does not give
> someone authority.
> Have you read the metadata on the clearinghouse? Read it. If you
> have any questions, get back to me.
> Robert Morrell
> Senior Land Surveyor
> Bureau of Real Property
> Division of Lands and Forests
> NYS Dept. Environmental Conservation
> 625 Broadway
> Albany NY 12233-4256
>>>> "Russ Nelson" <russ at cloudmade.com> 3/9/2009 1:47 PM >>>
> So to the best of your ability, the DEC Lands dataset reflects a fact
> about the world, and there is zero room for creativity? (I understand
> why you might feel this way, so if you do, no explanation is needed,
> just a simple "yes" -- to save you the effort of convincing someone
> who agrees with you!!)
> On Mar 9, 2009, at 10:10 AM, Robert Morrell wrote:
>> For anyone to edit this DEC spatial data other than DEC
>> staff is absolutely inappropriate. This data layer is built using
>> trained staff using survey maps and deed. If this is your intention
>> I am asking you not to use our data. There are a whole host of
>> issues here. For one, non-survey grade GPS accuracies very widely
>> and can be hundreds of feet wrong. Secondly, sign location is in no
>> way a indicator of the correct boundary location. Third, sometime
>> the Department may transfer in or transfer out land that may not be
>> reflected in a timely manner on the clearing house data or new land
>> have been purchased. I can go on and on.
>> If you would like to discuss this further you are welcome to call me.
>> Robert Morrell
>> Senior Land Surveyor
>> Bureau of Real Property
>> Division of Lands and Forests
>> NYS Dept. Environmental Conservation
>> 625 Broadway
>> Albany NY 12233-4256
>>>>> "Russ Nelson" <russ at cloudmade.com> 3/9/2009 9:37 AM >>>
>> I realize that it's not appropriate to edit the data, and in fact we
>> can keep track of any changes, and either revert them if they are
>> obviously incorrect, or submit them back to you if they seem to be
>> legitimate. Why would someone make a purposeful edit? Perhaps they
>> were out in the field with a GPS, and noticed that the signage
>> disagrees with the map? Of course, it may be the signage that's
>> wrong, but either way it's an issue worthy of resolution.
>> OpenStreetMap is a combination of imported data and user-generated
>> data. If you're familiar with Wikipedia, OpenStreetMap is very
>> similar in concept, only for geodata. Imported data goes into the
>> under its own userid, and all of your metadata is preserved. If
>> someone edits anything, it's recorded under their username, so we
>> who made the edit.
>> The reason that I ask for permission is that data in OpenStreetMap
>> be further downloaded by users. We have an API. Anyone can make API
>> queries for, say, a bounding box, and received a download of
>> everything inside that box. That would include the DEC Lands data.
>> We try very hard not to infringe anyone's copyright. No copyright is
>> claimed in your metadata, but of course under the Berne Convention a
>> copyright exists nonetheless, and we need your permission to be able
>> to redistribute the data.
>> On Mar 9, 2009, at 8:48 AM, Robert Morrell wrote:
>>> Any data the Department puts on the clearing house is open to the
>>> Public to download.
>>> I see below you discuss "Anybody who makes additions or
>>> corrections to the data must share them with others."
>>> It would not be appropriate to edit this data in any manor.
>>> What kind of software is this?
>>> Robert Morrell
>>> Senior Land Surveyor
>>> Bureau of Real Property
>>> Division of Lands and Forests
>>> NYS Dept. Environmental Conservation
>>> 625 Broadway
>>> Albany NY 12233-4256
>>>>>> "Russ Nelson" <russ at cloudmade.com> 3/7/2009 9:59 AM >>>
>>> Larry, is it acceptable use to import the "DEC Lands" dataset:
>>> Into OpenStreetMap? I plan to do a full import of all your
>>> so that when you revise your dataset, I can re-import the data and
>>> replace the existing data.
>>> Note that the license on OpenStreetMap is Creative Commons
>>> Share-Alike. That means that anybody who uses it must acknowledge
>>> source (and I know that you want your office to be included there; I
>>> will make sure that happens), and it also means that nobody can lock
>>> the data up in a proprietary manner. Anybody who makes additions
>>> corrections to the data must share them with others.
>>> Russ Nelson - http://community.cloudmade.com/blog - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:RussNelson
>>> russ at cloudmade.com - http://openstreetmap.org/user/RussNelson
>> Russ Nelson - http://community.cloudmade.com/blog - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:RussNelson
>> russ at cloudmade.com - http://openstreetmap.org/user/RussNelson
> Russ Nelson - http://community.cloudmade.com/blog - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:RussNelson
> russ at cloudmade.com - http://openstreetmap.org/user/RussNelson
Russ Nelson - http://community.cloudmade.com/blog - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:RussNelson
russ at cloudmade.com - http://openstreetmap.org/user/RussNelson
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