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<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Well there is no facility to
enter lines yet via the gui, so all lines entered into that program are OK
then. You could even upload all openstreetmap's roads into my program using the
paste CVS box, view them against the google maps background - by your argument,
that's OK, because you own the tracks. You can then see which roads you have
missed, even mark out with markers who is claiming which patch to do the traces
(ie allocating areas to people to do traces of, keeping track of who is tracing
which areas) - as long as all you do is upload traces as a reference and only
use the original traces for the real openstreetmap, not any points you have
plotted via the GUI. Lol, thinking about it the site doesn't even have to be
visible to the internet. It runs just fine on my windows PC using WAMP (A
windows LAMP stack) and pulls map tiles from google through my firewall - theres
probably no way google could even know what you are overlaying onto their maps
seeing as all they are gonna see is map tile jpegs being streamed to a pc
behind a firewall :P I am gonna do what I am gonna do for now, I am just trying
to put the idea to you guys that this may be a useful tool for helping you
collect and visualize your data - In public or not...</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>-----Original Message-----</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>From:
openstreetmap-bounces@vr.ucl.ac.uk [<a
href="mailto:openstreetmap-bounces@vr.ucl.ac.uk">mailto:openstreetmap-bounces@vr.ucl.ac.uk</a>]
On Behalf Of </span></font><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Richard Fairhurst</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Sent: </span></font><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>10
November 2005</span></font><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> </span></font><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>01:24</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>To: </span></font><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>openstreetmap@vr.ucl.ac.uk</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Subject: Re: [Openstreetmap]
Coders needed for similar project & UKFOIactrequest update.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>On </span></font><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>10
Nov 2005</span></font><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>, at </span></font><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>00:46</span></font><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>,
Clive Galway wrote:</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> Read my argument. I
argued specifically that since you can manually </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> enter lat long OR click
on the map using my program, how can they </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> prove it ?</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>They can't prove it for one
single point.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>But for an aggregation of
data, which I'd guess is what you're trying </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>to achieve, they can argue
very convincingly that some users will have </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>clicked on the map to enter
points - since you provide a UI for them to </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>do exactly that.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>This makes your database a
derived work, especially as you say (in your </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>earlier e-mail) that
"there is no way to tell whether it came from a </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>gps unit or you clicked on
the map - all that is stored in my database </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>is the latitude and
longitude".</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>It's not just Steve and me
who think this. Take a look at </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><a
href="http://www.kingston.ac.uk/gis/ppt/EDINA05.pdf">http://www.kingston.ac.uk/gis/ppt/EDINA05.pdf</a>
, particularly page 16.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> Also, my program allows
import of points and paths from a GPS unit. </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> So, theoretically, if
you GPSed a road or a river - surveyed it </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> yourself, so to speak,
then just overlayed it on their map, how do </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>> they own it ?</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>They don't.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>No-one is claiming that Google
ownz0rs your GPS tracks. No-one is </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>claiming that Google owns
information just by virtue of you </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>superimposing it on their
map.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Rather: I have just used
your map to add a point for 'the end of Elms </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Road' in </span></font><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Burton-on-Trent</span></font><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>,
Staffordshire. I did this by clicking on the </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>point on Google Maps at the
end of </span></font><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Elms Road</span></font><font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>This entered a latitude of
-1.6153764724731 and a longitude of </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>52.800945232281 into your
form. I then clicked 'Save'. This wrote it to </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>your database. (I was, of
course, wrong in my previous e-mail when I </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>said there wasn't a way to
type in lat/longs directly - sorry.)</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Your database now contains
material which is (c) TeleAtlas, Google's </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>map supplier: the material
in question being that "the end of </span></font><font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Elms
Road</span></font><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>is at -1.6153764724731,
52.800945232281". Your database is now a </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>derived work from TeleAtlas.
A few more of these and you won't be able </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>to legally redistribute it
without their permission.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Google Maps' terms of use
aren't relevant - they do not overrule </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>TeleAtlas's rights under </span></font><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>UK</span></font><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>
statute law.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Richard</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>_______________________________________________</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Openstreetmap mailing list</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Openstreetmap@vr.ucl.ac.uk <a
href="http://bat.vr.ucl.ac.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstreetmap">http://bat.vr.ucl.ac.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstreetmap</a></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
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