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<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt'>I hope I didn't come across as aggressive, but I did
want to point out some really weird inconsistencies that do need to be resolved
and wanted to encourage debate. In the <st1:country-region w:st="on">UK</st1:country-region>
a secondary roads is a minor road, in <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">San
Francisco</st1:place></st1:City> <a
href="http://maps.yahoo.com/#mvt=s&lat=37.668663&lon=-122.485307&zoom=18">this
junction</a> (a multilevel road with multiple flyovers) is classed as secondary
whereas <a
href="http://maps.yahoo.com/#mvt=s&lat=37.428439&lon=-121.909597&zoom=19">this
one</a> (an urban road with traffic signal controlled junctions) is classed as
primary.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt'>I suspect that fact reason that the first is classed
as secondary is because the mapper wanted an orange road and that it should really
be a ‘trunk’ road.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt'>I really don’t mind what the rendered colours
are, that is for local discussion and there may even be multiple versions with
different styles as far as I am concernedm, but currently the rendering is
uk-centric and that seems inappropriate for the <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">USA</st1:place></st1:country-region> and seems to be causing distortions
with tagging.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt'>I do think that the hierarchy of road classes needs to
be respected across OSM (where a trunk road is more important than primary road
than secondary road etc) allowing a routing engine to direct drivers worldwide onto
the main routes (and also possibly keep pedestrians and cyclists off them). I
do think that the ‘_link’ element needs to be used to help sat-nav
systems give meaningful instructions and not give out information about turning
onto link roads when it should say ‘turn onto Highway 101’. I do
think the description of the highway road classes in Map Features needs to be
internationalised to allow people in new countries to chose the right mapping
to their own infrastructure and naming and colour conventions.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt'>Personally I hope that <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">San Francisco</st1:place></st1:City> will prove a useful test case
where many of the outstanding internationalisation issues can be bottomed out before
there before large scale tagging across many other parts of the country.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt'>Currently everything except interstate is tagged as ‘residential’.
If it was agreed that state highways should be ‘trunk’ roads then
would it be sensible to design a ‘bot’ to scan un-touched tiger data
for road names including the word ‘state’ but not the word ‘interstate’
and automatically update the tags from ‘highway=residential’ to ‘highway=trunk’
(or whatever is agreed).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt'>Peter<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span></font>-----Original Message-----</p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span></font>From: Andy Allan
[mailto:gravitystorm@gmail.com]</p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span></font>Sent: 18 April 2008 17:38</p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span></font>To: Peter Miller</p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span></font>Cc: Talk Openstreetmap</p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span></font>Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] tagging and
rendering highways in the <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">USA</st1:place></st1:country-region>
and</p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span></font>elsewhere</p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt'>> > If we can agree on the rendering rules and
get both Mapnik and</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt'>> osmarender</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt'>> > sorted out for the <st1:country-region
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">USA</st1:place></st1:country-region></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt'>> "sorted out" - they both work fine.
Even if we had a production-ready</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt'>> mechanism for country-specific rendering, it
would still be a matter</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt'>> of opinion, or more accurately, a matter of
cartographic style, as to</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt'>> whether we want to render the freeways in orange.
After all, it's just</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt'>> a map, and conventions are only conventions, not
hard and fast rules.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt'>> Not saying that we shouldn't, just that your
phrasing is quite</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt'>> aggressive for what is a matter of taste. I
wouldn't want someone to</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt'>> say that my choice of colours for the cycle map
contours needs</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt'>> "sorting out" (even if that might well
be true!).</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt'>> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt'>> Cheers,</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt'>> Andy</span></font></p>
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