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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks for the explanation. Clearly it is
all very early days for this stuff and yes, it is also my understanding that
OpenRouteService is not (yet) open source. The interface that they use to say
where the person wants to start and where they want to end and then to define
the format for the route that is returned is however exchanged by a published open
standard from the OGC, hence my post.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Here is some information about how ORS
works:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><a
href="http://www.directionsmag.com/article.php?article_id=2876&trv=1">http://www.directionsmag.com/article.php?article_id=2876&trv=1</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>And here is a page of download about the OpenLS
standard that they using:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><a
href="http://www.opengeospatial.org/standards/ols">http://www.opengeospatial.org/standards/ols</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>And here and some quotes from the documentation
in the zip file for the OpenLS Service available from that page<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="NHLHNJ+TimesNewRoman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:NHLHNJ+TimesNewRoman;color:black'>“This
service determines a route for a subscriber. The subscriber must use a
navigation application to set up the use of the service. They must indicate the
start point (usually the position acquired through the Gateway Service, but
this could be a planned trip from a specified location, say, from their home),
and the endpoint (any location, like a place for which they only have the phone
number or an address, or a place acquired through a search to a Directory
Service). The subscriber may optionally specify waypoints, in some manner, the
route preference (fastest, shortest, least traffic, most scenic, etc.), and the
preferred mode of transport. The subscriber may optionally store a route for as
long as needed, thus requiring the means to also fetch a stored route <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="NHLHNJ+TimesNewRoman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:NHLHNJ+TimesNewRoman;color:black'>“The
Route ADT is actually two ADTs: Route Summary and Route Geometry. Route Summary
contains the route’s overall characteristics, such as its start point,
waypoints, end point, transportation type, total distance, travel time, and
bounding box. Route Geometry contains a list of geographic positions along the
route, ordered in the sequence of planned travel, starting with the position of
the route’s origin and ending with the position of the route’s
destination. The geometry includes the positions of all nodes along the route,
including waypoints. The geometry also includes intermediate points needed to
describe the geometric shape of the route segments between each node in the
route. These two ADTs are generated by the Route Service and
“presented” to a subscriber as routing information, e.g. as a route
displayed over a map, via the Presentation Service, or they are used directly
by an application to guide a mobile subscriber to their destination. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3 color=black face="NHLHNJ+TimesNewRoman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:NHLHNJ+TimesNewRoman;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3 color=black face="NHLHNJ+TimesNewRoman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:NHLHNJ+TimesNewRoman;color:black'>Clearly this is a standard for
the same purpose as we need. I am of course also aware that OGC standards tend
to be big and bulky, and that OSM may wish to use something much simpler, but I
am keen that we do share a standard for routing engines. There are other standardized
internfaces as well for converting a textual description of a place to a
geocode and the rreverse (ie converting, <st1:Street w:st="on"><st1:address
w:st="on">10 London Road</st1:address></st1:Street>, Blogville into a lat/long
and the reverse).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3 color=black face="NHLHNJ+TimesNewRoman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:NHLHNJ+TimesNewRoman;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3 color=black face="NHLHNJ+TimesNewRoman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:NHLHNJ+TimesNewRoman;color:black'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3 color=black face="NHLHNJ+TimesNewRoman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:NHLHNJ+TimesNewRoman;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3 color=black face="NHLHNJ+TimesNewRoman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:NHLHNJ+TimesNewRoman;color:black'>Peter<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3 color=black face="NHLHNJ+TimesNewRoman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:NHLHNJ+TimesNewRoman;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3 color=black face="NHLHNJ+TimesNewRoman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:NHLHNJ+TimesNewRoman;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;text-autospace:none'><font
size=3 color=black face="NHLHNJ+TimesNewRoman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:NHLHNJ+TimesNewRoman;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Nic Roets
[mailto:nroets@gmail.com] <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 28 September 2008 21:51<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Peter Miller<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> Talk Openstreetmap<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [OSM-talk] YOURS now
supports route using only cycleroutes -Update</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>AFAIK, ORS is not FOSS.
Neither has Lambertus published his source, although I believe it will
eventually be done.<br>
<br>
The gosmore / YOURS API is quite simple. Input is basically the permalink URL
and the output is a list of coordinates in CSV format. It includes info about
the segments such as way names and junction types e.g. traffic_signals /
mini_roundabout. So YOURS has enough info to generate verbose English output,
but it's just not implemented.<br>
<br>
Currently gosmore does not allow it's routing parameters to be changed between
queries. It is a feature that's easy to implement that Lambertus has asked me
for. It will allow different YOURS users to have different preferences, which
will be pretty cool, but I may not get time to implement it before 2009.<br>
<br>
If YOURS can allow users to manage many different markers, it will be easier to
tweak routes. For example forcing the route from A to Z to visit B and see how
much of a detour it is. It sound like basic OpenLayers stuff, but neither
Lambertus nor I are experienced enough with it.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 8:34 PM, Peter Miller <<a
href="mailto:peter.miller@itoworld.com">peter.miller@itoworld.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Given that we now have two web interfaces for routing and two routing<br>
engines would it make sense to try to standardise the interface? I know<br>
standards can be a pain, but so can a load of custom interfaces. Is anything<br>
like this being done?<br>
<br>
I believe that OpenRouteService uses an OGC standard for their interface. Is<br>
this what you use? If not is it too big, heavy and slow, or is it just not<br>
suitable or what?<br>
<br>
If it is usable then possibly you could put a wrapper around the routing<br>
engine you are using so that you can use the same interface as ORS. If you<br>
did that then you could possibly let people choose the routing engine they<br>
prefer and then possibly someone else might come out with a better routing<br>
engine with the same API and it would also be getting very interesting :)<br>
<br>
Anyway, thanks for what you have been doing. I am listening and<br>
experimenting. I have been tweeking the tagging in my home town each week to<br>
improve the routing using YOURS. It is still coming up with some weird<br>
routes that I can explain and I will report them to you if I become sure it<br>
isn't my fault. The details at the bottom of the page that report the<br>
dataset version is very useful. An RSS feed to this would be handy, as would<br>
more frequent updates if you can manage it. I find the weekly cycle of<br>
testing, changing, waiting means that problems take some time to get sorted.<br>
Mind you it is the same with Mapnik and the Cycle mapping.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<font color="#888888"><span style='color:#888888'><br>
<br>
Peter</span></font><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
<br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: <a href="mailto:talk-bounces@openstreetmap.org">talk-bounces@openstreetmap.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:talk-">talk-</a><br>
> <a href="mailto:bounces@openstreetmap.org">bounces@openstreetmap.org</a>]
On Behalf Of Lambertus<br>
> Sent: 26 September 2008 11:15<br>
> To: Talk Openstreetmap<br>
> Subject: [Spam] Re: [OSM-talk] YOURS now supports route using only<br>
> cycleroutes -Update<br>
><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>> Stefan Monnier wrote:<br>
> > I'm not sure what is the status and goal of this site, so I don't
know<br>
> > how interested you might be in "bug reports", but I just
tried to get<br>
> > a fastest car route from Montréal Québec to <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City
w:st="on">New Haven</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">Connecticut</st1:State></st1:place>,
and<br>
> > the route stops in the middle of nowhere. The
"shortest" route seems<br>
> > OK, except it uses way too many little roads.<br>
> ><br>
> > Just for kicks, I also tried the fastest bicycle route from Montréal
to<br>
> > <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Buenos Aires</st1:place></st1:City>
and it similarly stops in the middle of nowhere.<br>
> ><br>
><br>
> Status:<br>
> - Website: heavily in development<br>
> - Routing engine: don't know (not maintained by me)<br>
><br>
> Goal:<br>
> Use OpenStreetMap data to make a routing website utilizing as much other<br>
> (opensource) services/application as possible. I develop *only* the glue<br>
> logic; the webinterface.<br>
><br>
> I'm always interested in bug reports, suggestions or code snippets but I<br>
> don't maintain the routing engine.<br>
><br>
> Regarding your route from <st1:City w:st="on">Montreal</st1:City> - <st1:City
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">New Haven</st1:place></st1:City>, works for me.<br>
> fastest:<br>
> <<a href="http://www.yournavigation.org/?flat=41.308153&flon=-"
target="_blank">http://www.yournavigation.org/?flat=41.308153&flon=-</a><br>
> 72.928158&tlat=45.531875&tlon=-73.636881&v=motorcar&fast=1&layer=mapnik><br>
><br>
> Shortest:<br>
> <<a href="http://www.yournavigation.org/?flat=41.308153&flon=-"
target="_blank">http://www.yournavigation.org/?flat=41.308153&flon=-</a><br>
> 72.928158&tlat=45.531875&tlon=-73.636881&v=motorcar&fast=0&layer=mapnik><br>
><br>
> If a route stops somewhere between the start and stop coordinates then<br>
> the routing engine (Gosmore) wasn't able to calculate a complete route<br>
> and returns it's best solution (which might be using a lot of small<br>
> roads even when you chose 'fastest'). In case of <st1:City w:st="on">Montreal</st1:City>
- <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Buenos Aires</st1:place></st1:City><br>
> this is caused there isn't a continuing connecting road between those<br>
> cities. Especially in <st1:place w:st="on">Central America</st1:place>
there is a lot of 'here be<br>
> dragons' land. This effectively prevents routing between North and South<br>
> <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">America</st1:place></st1:country-region>.<br>
><br>
> Although I've put some working long distance examples below there are<br>
> also situations where Gosmore just seems to 'give up' while a route is<br>
> possible. Example: just try to route from <st1:State w:st="on">Berlin</st1:State>
to <st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Madrid</st1:place></st1:State>
(type those<br>
> names to get the coordinates). Gosmore is not able to return a complete<br>
> route but routes from <st1:State w:st="on">Madrid</st1:State> to <st1:City
w:st="on">Amsterdam</st1:City> and from <st1:City w:st="on">Amsterdam</st1:City>
to <st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Berlin</st1:place></st1:State><br>
> (or <st1:State w:st="on">Madrid</st1:State> - Geneve - <st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">Berlin</st1:place></st1:State> and many other in-betweens) are
working<br>
> just fine.<br>
><br>
> Some other examples:<br>
> <st1:City w:st="on">Glasgow</st1:City> - <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">London</st1:place></st1:City><br>
> <<a href="http://www.yournavigation.org/?flat=55.79274&flon=-"
target="_blank">http://www.yournavigation.org/?flat=55.79274&flon=-</a><br>
>
4.354897&tlat=51.389725&tlon=-0.114174&v=motorcar&fast=1&layer=mapnik><br>
><br>
> GB: Northeastern tip - Southwestern tip, 1445km<br>
> <<a href="http://www.yournavigation.org/?flat=58.642109&flon=-"
target="_blank">http://www.yournavigation.org/?flat=58.642109&flon=-</a><br>
>
3.068728&tlat=50.066191&tlon=-5.700649&v=motorcar&fast=1&layer=mapnik><br>
><br>
> Europe: <st1:City w:st="on">Amsterdam</st1:City> - <st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">Madrid</st1:place></st1:State>, 2056km<br>
> <<a
href="http://www.yournavigation.org/?flat=52.36227&flon=4.798082&tlat=40.409275"
target="_blank">http://www.yournavigation.org/?flat=52.36227&flon=4.798082&tlat=40.409275</a><br>
> &tlon=-3.710699&v=motorcar&fast=1&layer=mapnik><br>
><br>
> There are also other routing 'problems' (weird route decisions) which<br>
> are difficult to explain, so I'll create a wiki page for that where they<br>
> can be gathered which might help to solve common problems.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> talk mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org">talk@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
> <a href="http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk" target="_blank">http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk</a><br>
<br>
<br>
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