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<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>The essential thing of my proposal (however it be implemented)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>is that NOTHING changes with the current software or apps.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>A standard request will just deliver the current state of the
map.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>The API will filter out all “deleted” (just as now) and
additionally all<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>object that have a valid_per tag that evaluates to false (new).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>If you think about it, deleted just means: valid_per= false per
today<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Then new apps could make use to request tot the API exact the <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>time span as required.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Send me all tracks valid on 2009 til 2021, because I want to map
my town before<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>the new quarter was put in place of the old one.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>JOSM might request “CURRENT + FUTURE” to let people edit future
stuff.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Editing deleted data could be enabled for the date of deletion
only,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>we cannot delete data if we want to keep history. Just<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>the data becomes invalid per deletion date. The date<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>depends on the day someone finds a superfluous object, but<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>may be changed if he knows the exact date it was removed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>The bus routing planner might request all data<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>valid on Monday morning between 9 and 12 so as<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>the user is presented the right route the bus will take that
morning.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>If next week the bus route will change, the relations describing<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>a route can be edited in advance<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>by editing new ones and enable them on a future date.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Of course this is not manual editing anymore. it may be too<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>complex to really keep the valid_per tag meaningful<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>by editing by hand with 100K+ usrs. But in the future<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>we will mass import many public databases, and they may<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>be tagged accordingly on the date of import.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>The valid_per data needs not be implemented in OSM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>but can be retrieved from a separate “bus routing” database,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>where the OSM data just tell the user where to find “valid_per”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>data.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I , just like Peter, do not see how problems in mixed data<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>(the roman way) could get in the way, as nothing is deleted,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>just becomes invalid for standard application.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Gert Gremmen<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>-----------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><img width=150 height=50 id="Afbeelding_x0020_1"
src="cid:image001.gif@01C9E85C.C63224A0" alt=Osm><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Openstreetmap.nl (alias: cetest)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Webdings;color:green'>P</span><b><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:green'> Before printing, think about the environment.</span></b><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Van:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
talk-bounces@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-bounces@openstreetmap.org] <b>Namens
</b>Peter Dörrie<br>
<b>Verzonden:</b> Monday, June 08, 2009 4:49 PM<br>
<b>Aan:</b> Frederik Ramm<br>
<b>CC:</b> talk@openstreetmap.org<br>
<b>Onderwerp:</b> Re: [OSM-talk] Wanted feature for API 0.7 ??<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>2009/6/8 Frederik Ramm <<a
href="mailto:frederik@remote.org">frederik@remote.org</a>><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br>
Peter Dörrie wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>The current renderes wouldn't be able to handle it either
and forcing 50+<br>
applications to change would be unappropriate.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Why, we're doing that all the time ;-)<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
Yeah I thought so too, but this was one of the main arguments against my first
try to establish something like this.<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;
margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
There are many unsolved questions here. For example: What happens if parts of
the "ancient" world transcend your "fourth dimension", e.g.
a contemporary secondary road uses a few bits of an ancient Roman road. They
would surely share the same nodes, wouldn't they? But if someone then deletes
the secondary road (which he downloaded without ever knowing that the Roman road
also exists because that was shielded from him), he must not delete the nodes
because they are still used by other objects...<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
My angle on this is primarily the historical-genetic one. Taking your example:<br>
<br>
1. Brutus Mappus maps this roman long distance road in 100 B.C he tags it
correctly with highway=roman and surface=cobblestone. The road is used in that
form for the better part of the next two millennia.<br>
<br>
2. In the 19th century it gets some heavy usage and deteriorates. The local
government decides to build a new road, which uses some of the same vectors the
roman road used so far. The grat-great-great (etc) son of Mappus (John Maps)
splits the road, tagging part of it as highway=disused and others as
highway=construction.<br>
<br>
3. The new highway is ready and John tags it as highway=primary<br>
<br>
4. The same thing happens several times over until fake Steve finds a motorway,
using some parts of the primary road, using some parts of the roman road (which
by now is not longer visible in the landscape and has been tagged as historic).<br>
<br>
Okay, what does this mean for whom?<br>
<br>
Users: The normal user will see a rendering which shows "what is on the
ground". -> Motorway and those parts of the primary road that still
exist<br>
<br>
Mappers: The normal mapper will see, what is relevant to him. -> Same as
user and some additional tags (oneway, surface, maxspeed, etc.) plus perhaps
those "disused" roads, as they may still be relevant to mapping. <br>
<br>
Special interest person (scientist, etc): He gets the possibility of seeing
exactly what he wants to see. The situation in 100 B.C? no problem. Ask the
database about all disused / historic / etc objects? also no problem.<br>
<br>
Different object sharing the same nodes over time (and changing them) is not a
problem.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Greetings,<br>
<br>
Peter<o:p></o:p></p>
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