<html>
  <head>
    <meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
  </head>
  <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi Martijn<br>
      <br>
      "MapRoulette challenges have been designed specifically with the
      armchair mapper in mind - no local knowledge should be required to
      fix what MapRoulette asks you to fix"<br>
      <br>
      There's the fundamental flaw in these types of sites. Of course
      you need local knowledge. <br>
      <br>
      Please provide "factual evidence" that it adds to OSM accuracy.<br>
      Please provide "factual evidence" that they are actual "fixes". <br>
      <br>
      "MapRoulette gets help to some of the remote, forgotten places."<br>
      If they're that remote do they need "helping". Who's going to go
      there? & again prove the edits in those locations are accurate
      & genuine.<br>
      <br>
      OK. First random from your site:<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://maproulette.org/#t=IT_WaterCrossings/IT_RXING_11.333811432368_43.474069354879">http://maproulette.org/#t=IT_WaterCrossings/IT_RXING_11.333811432368_43.474069354879</a><br>
      How can anyone who doesn't live in area (I tried to copy/paste the
      location but the info box disappeared!) possibly know which is
      correct? <br>
      <br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://maproulette.org/#t=osmose-8170-147-soccer/osmose-8170-147-soccer-None-d19295cc3e005283ae80b66bde86f474">http://maproulette.org/#t=osmose-8170-147-soccer/osmose-8170-147-soccer-None-d19295cc3e005283ae80b66bde86f474</a><br>
      Supposed missing soccer pitch in France. I mean, really? <br>
      <br>
      I believe these sites add more inaccuracy than accuracy.<br>
      <br>
      Dave F.<br>
      <br>
      On 23/08/2014 01:30, Martijn van Exel wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:etPan.53f7e0c3.519b500d.c7e@martijnv-mbp15.telenav.com"
      type="cite">
      <style>body{font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px}</style>
      <div id="bloop_customfont"
        style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color:
        rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;">Dave, </div>
      <div id="bloop_customfont"
        style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color:
        rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;"><br>
      </div>
      <div id="bloop_customfont"
        style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color:
        rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;">MapRoulette
        challenges have been designed specifically with the armchair
        mapper in mind - no local knowledge should be required to fix
        what MapRoulette asks you to fix. </div>
      <div id="bloop_customfont"
        style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color:
        rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;"><br>
      </div>
      <div id="bloop_customfont"
        style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color:
        rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;">If you can
        provide factual evidence that MapRoulette (or its new cousin
        MapBoxRoulette) are causing significant harm to OpenStreetMap
        data, please let me know and - at least for MapRoulette - I can
        see about appropriate measures. These could include providing
        better instructions, or even taking down a particular challenge
        - as I have done in the past. </div>
      <div id="bloop_customfont"
        style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color:
        rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;"><br>
      </div>
      <div id="bloop_customfont"
        style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color:
        rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;">My extensive
        experience preparing MapRoulette challenges, listening to
        feedback from its users and looking at lots and lots of edits
        made by MapRoulette users all point to the conclusion that this
        is a good way to get a lot of eyes on particular problems, and
        get them fixed much, much faster than would otherwise have been
        possible. </div>
      <div id="bloop_customfont"
        style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color:
        rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;"><br>
      </div>
      <div id="bloop_customfont"
        style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color:
        rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;">In a perfect
        world, we’d have local mappers everywhere. In the real world, we
        can use all the help we can get. MapRoulette gets help to some
        of the remote, forgotten places.</div>
      <div id="bloop_sign_1408753185131056128" class="bloop_sign">
        <div style="font-family:helvetica,arial;font-size:13px">-- <br>
          Martijn van Exel<br>
        </div>
        <div style="font-family:helvetica,arial;font-size:13px"><br>
        </div>
      </div>
      <div style="color:black">From: <span style="color:black">Dave F.</span>
        <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:davefox@madasafish.com"><davefox@madasafish.com></a><br>
        Reply: <span style="color:black">Dave F.</span> <a
          moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:davefox@madasafish.com"><davefox@madasafish.com>></a><br>
        Date: <span style="color:black">August 22, 2014 at 6:16:33 PM</span><br>
        To: <span style="color:black">Martijn van Exel</span> <a
          moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:m@rtijn.org"><m@rtijn.org>></a>,
        <span style="color:black"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:maproulette@openstreetmap.org">maproulette@openstreetmap.org</a></span> <a
          moz-do-not-send="true"
          href="mailto:maproulette@openstreetmap.org"><maproulette@openstreetmap.org>></a>,
        <span style="color:black">OSM Talk</span> <a
          moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org"><talk@openstreetmap.org>></a><br>
        Subject: <span style="color:black"> Re: [OSM-talk] Detrimental
          to the OSM database (was: Ways needing smoothing back on
          track) <br>
        </span></div>
      <br>
      <blockquote type="cite" class="clean_bq"><span>
          <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
            <div>
              <title></title>
              <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hello All<br>
                <br>
                Please include all replies to OM-Talk:<br>
                <br>
                I was meaning to start a separate thread on this
                subject, but this
                seems the appropriate time & place.<br>
                <br>
                This website, along with <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
                  href="http://osmlab.github.io/to-fix/">http://osmlab.github.io/to-fix/</a>
                ( & maybe others) are encouraging errors to be
                introduced to
                the OSM database.<br>
                <br>
                For obvious reasons there's a discouragement of armchair
                mapping.
                These sites take it another step into inaccuracy by
                asking you to
                randomly correct a supposed error ( & I /really/
                want to
                emphasise 'supposed') that the user can have no factual
                knowledge
                of whether the error is true or not. <br>
                <br>
                I live in the UK. How can I possibly know if there's
                genuinely a
                "sharp angle" in Arizona or there's something less than
                2 metres
                away from another object that should be connected in
                Cambodia?<br>
                <br>
                IMO these websites are detrimental to the OSM database
                & should
                be rescinded. <br>
                <br>
                Dave F.<br>
                <br>
                On 22/08/2014 22:25, Martijn van Exel wrote:<br>
              </div>
              <blockquote
                cite="mid:etPan.53f7b530.4e6afb66.c7e@martijnv-mbp15.telenav.com"
                type="cite">
                <div id="bloop_customfont"
                  style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;
                  color: rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height:
                  auto;">
                  Hi all - just wanted to let you know that the ‘Ways
                  Needing
                  Smoothing’ MapRoulette challenge is finally being
                  updated again. It
                  used to consist of mostly false positives for the past
                  week, and
                  there still are some, but there should be some fun to
                  be had there
                  still :)</div>
                <div id="bloop_customfont"
                  style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;
                  color: rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height:
                  auto;">
                  <br>
                </div>
                <div id="bloop_customfont"
                  style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;
                  color: rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height:
                  auto;">
                  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://maproulette.org/#t=waysneedingsmoothing/">http://maproulette.org/#t=waysneedingsmoothing/</a></div>
                <div id="bloop_customfont"
                  style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;
                  color: rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height:
                  auto;">
                  <br>
                </div>
                <div id="bloop_customfont"
                  style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;
                  color: rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height:
                  auto;">
                  It’s still U.S. only :( but we’re getting closer to
                  being able to
                  doing it for other countries as well.</div>
                <div id="bloop_sign_1408742248396697088"
                  class="bloop_sign">
                  <div
                    style="font-family:helvetica,arial;font-size:13px">
                    -- <br>
                    Martijn van Exel<br>
                    <br>
                  </div>
                </div>
                <br>
                <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
                <br>
                <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
talk mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org">talk@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk</a>
</pre>
              </blockquote>
              <br>
              <br>
              <br>
              <hr style="border:none; color:#909090;
                background-color:#B0B0B0; height: 1px; width: 99%;">
              <table style="border-collapse:collapse;border:none;">
                <tbody>
                  <tr>
                    <td style="border:none;padding:0px 15px 0px 8px"><a
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="http://www.avast.com/"><img
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          src="http://static.avast.com/emails/avast-mail-stamp.png"
                          border="0"></a></td>
                    <td>
                      <p style="color:#3d4d5a;
                        font-family:"Calibri","Verdana","Arial","Helvetica";
                        font-size:12pt;">
                        This email is free from viruses and malware
                        because <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="http://www.avast.com/">avast! Antivirus</a>
                        protection is
                        active.</p>
                    </td>
                  </tr>
                </tbody>
              </table>
              <br>
            </div>
          </div>
        </span></blockquote>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  
<br /><br />
<hr style='border:none; color:#909090; background-color:#B0B0B0; height: 1px; width: 99%;' />
<table style='border-collapse:collapse;border:none;'>
        <tr>
                <td style='border:none;padding:0px 15px 0px 8px'>
                        <a href="http://www.avast.com/">
                                <img border=0 src="http://static.avast.com/emails/avast-mail-stamp.png" />
                        </a>
                </td>
                <td>
                        <p style='color:#3d4d5a; font-family:"Calibri","Verdana","Arial","Helvetica"; font-size:12pt;'>
                                This email is free from viruses and malware because <a href="http://www.avast.com/">avast! Antivirus</a> protection is active.
                        </p>
                </td>
        </tr>
</table>
<br />
</body>
</html>