<div dir="ltr"><div>hi</div><div>I mean globe map/ map Iraq</div><div>please help for download Iraq map please</div><div>thanks</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 4:30 PM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:talk-request@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">talk-request@openstreetmap.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Send talk mailing list submissions to<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: Antennas and radio networks supports mapping (Dave Stanley)<br>
2. Re: Antennas and radio networks supports mapping<br>
(François Lacombe)<br>
3. Re: Antennas and radio networks supports mapping (Marc Zoutendijk)<br>
4. Re: Antennas and radio networks supports mapping (Suzan Reed)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 13:15:34 +0100<br>
From: Dave Stanley <<a href="mailto:daves@dbsconsult.co.uk">daves@dbsconsult.co.uk</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org">talk@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Antennas and radio networks supports mapping<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:55A64EE6.9090307@dbsconsult.co.uk">55A64EE6.9090307@dbsconsult.co.uk</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed<br>
<br>
Hi<br>
<br>
I map quite few radio sites in connection with my work. Usually it is<br>
just mast/tower locations using the 'man_made=tower +<br>
tower:type=communication' tags with name/operator information. There<br>
are quite few things for these towers that could be improved. For<br>
example the difference between a tower and a mast - a mast in the UK is<br>
normally considered to have guy wires to hold it up. where as a tower<br>
supports itself. May masts are big enough to justify the guy wires<br>
being mapped with their ground anchor points. I am not aware of anything<br>
suitable to do that.<br>
<br>
There is also their feed line systems. I have used power=line to map<br>
some of these, as in this example in Burma:<br>
<br>
<a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/16.86624/96.16177" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/16.86624/96.16177</a><br>
<br>
It is not ideal, but the closest I could think of. Medium-wave<br>
broadcasts sites typically have very long feeder systems that can be<br>
mapped, as in the example.<br>
<br>
As for the antennas mounted on a mast/tower, you then may need to<br>
consider the frequencies and operators that use the antennas. In some<br>
cases there will be multiple frequencies and operators. Physically, you<br>
would need the antenna height above ground level, direction, possibly<br>
which leg it is on and so on.<br>
<br>
Lots to think about.<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
<br>
<br>
Dave<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 15/07/2015 12:25, François Lacombe wrote:<br>
> Hi,<br>
><br>
> I just wanted to share some thoughts about antennas and radio supports<br>
> mapping on this list.<br>
><br>
> There are currently several tags in use to map telecommunication or<br>
> radio broadcast supports :<br>
> man_made=tower + tower:type=communication<br>
> man_made=telecommunication_tower<br>
> and so on...<br>
><br>
> but this won't allow us to add antennas on them at all or describe how<br>
> these supports are used.<br>
> Antennas and stations (relations of supports + antennas + cabinets)<br>
> may be interesting too.<br>
><br>
> Some French mappers and I are currently looking for a sustainable<br>
> model to map radio sites, radio stations, supports and antennas since<br>
> our regulator allows free datasets to be downloaded and part of them<br>
> can be added on the map (Etalab license compatible with OdBL).<br>
> The point is to add references (ref:FR:ANFR) on right objects first as<br>
> for linking to the whole dataset which shouldn't be imported in OSM<br>
> (only technical data and not so geographical)<br>
><br>
> I've proposed such things (unfortunately only in French for the<br>
> moment) but it's not finalized or transposable on the map<br>
> <a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Radio_antennas_mapping_proposal.png" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Radio_antennas_mapping_proposal.png</a><br>
><br>
> The problem is to add several antennas on the support itself<br>
> (sometimes on masts, sometimes at the top of buildings).<br>
> Supports can be composed of several decks and several antennas can<br>
> share same lat/lng (but different elev) and currently can't be added<br>
> as nodes. Relations can really be a pain to maintain in such situation<br>
> too.<br>
><br>
> May someone have idea and help solving the issue without adding 3rd<br>
> dimension to OSM model?<br>
><br>
><br>
> Cheers<br>
><br>
> François<br>
><br>
> --<br>
> *François Lacombe*<br>
><br>
> fl dot infosreseaux At gmail dot com<br>
> <a href="http://www.infos-reseaux.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">www.infos-reseaux.com</a> <<a href="http://www.infos-reseaux.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://www.infos-reseaux.com</a>><br>
> @InfosReseaux <<a href="http://www.twitter.com/InfosReseaux" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://www.twitter.com/InfosReseaux</a>><br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> talk mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org">talk@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
> <a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 18:16:13 +0200<br>
From: François Lacombe <<a href="mailto:fl.infosreseaux@gmail.com">fl.infosreseaux@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: Dave Stanley <<a href="mailto:daves@dbsconsult.co.uk">daves@dbsconsult.co.uk</a>><br>
Cc: "<a href="mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org">talk@openstreetmap.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org">talk@openstreetmap.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Antennas and radio networks supports mapping<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CAG0ygLcmrnQtN4Cw8HXc3xVjsKNREY+nxsCOeHM0KU=<a href="mailto:S1_J9zA@mail.gmail.com">S1_J9zA@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Thank you Dave,<br>
<br>
<br>
2015-07-15 14:15 GMT+02:00 Dave Stanley <<a href="mailto:daves@dbsconsult.co.uk">daves@dbsconsult.co.uk</a>>:<br>
<br>
> Hi<br>
><br>
> I map quite few radio sites in connection with my work. Usually it is<br>
> just mast/tower locations using the 'man_made=tower +<br>
> tower:type=communication' tags with name/operator information. There are<br>
> quite few things for these towers that could be improved. For example the<br>
> difference between a tower and a mast - a mast in the UK is normally<br>
> considered to have guy wires to hold it up. where as a tower supports<br>
> itself. May masts are big enough to justify the guy wires being mapped<br>
> with their ground anchor points. I am not aware of anything suitable to do<br>
> that.<br>
><br>
<br>
Ok to say definitions and keys are a bit messy. It's only about supports<br>
which can be refined independently.<br>
<br>
<br>
><br>
> There is also their feed line systems. I have used power=line to map some<br>
> of these, as in this example in Burma:<br>
><br>
> <a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/16.86624/96.16177" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/16.86624/96.16177</a><br>
><br>
> It is not ideal, but the closest I could think of. Medium-wave broadcasts<br>
> sites typically have very long feeder systems that can be mapped, as in the<br>
> example.<br>
><br>
<br>
This is interesting<br>
I didn't see the use of power=line like that but it can be adjusted.<br>
Wouldn't you add frequency=* and usage=radio on such lines ? It may allow<br>
consumers to distinguish them from standard electricity transmission lines.<br>
<br>
RF can be used at high power rates : The CERN currently use them at hundred<br>
of MW to power up its accelerator.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> As for the antennas mounted on a mast/tower, you then may need to consider<br>
> the frequencies and operators that use the antennas. In some cases there<br>
> will be multiple frequencies and operators. Physically, you would need the<br>
> antenna height above ground level, direction, possibly which leg it is on<br>
> and so on.<br>
><br>
<br>
Antennas have many characteristics but only a few are relevant in OSM.<br>
It may be better to give a manufacturer name and model reference to get<br>
such details directly from other databases.<br>
<br>
Azimuth (if applicable), position and model information are the only data<br>
required there, aren't you ?<br>
If the antenna works on several frequencies (based upon it's model number<br>
and manufacturer capabilities), the usage of those frequencies can depend<br>
on the "radio stations" relations the antenna is member of.<br>
<br>
<br>
Lots to think about.<br>
><br>
Indeed, can't wait to go forward about this topic<br>
<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
<br>
François<br>
<br>
--<br>
*François Lacombe*<br>
<br>
fl dot infosreseaux At gmail dot com<br>
<a href="http://www.infos-reseaux.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">www.infos-reseaux.com</a><br>
@InfosReseaux <<a href="http://www.twitter.com/InfosReseaux" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://www.twitter.com/InfosReseaux</a>><br>
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------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 22:10:07 +0200<br>
From: Marc Zoutendijk <<a href="mailto:marczoutendijk@mac.com">marczoutendijk@mac.com</a>><br>
To: Dave Stanley <<a href="mailto:daves@dbsconsult.co.uk">daves@dbsconsult.co.uk</a>><br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org">talk@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Antennas and radio networks supports mapping<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:CC362CBA-3B63-47AD-9EA3-FDD348CD03A3@mac.com">CC362CBA-3B63-47AD-9EA3-FDD348CD03A3@mac.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Hi, Regarding the tagging of communication towers, you should probably also read this discussion:<br>
<br>
<a href="https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/1366#issuecomment-81632042" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/1366#issuecomment-81632042</a> <<a href="https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/1366#issuecomment-81632042" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/1366#issuecomment-81632042</a>><br>
<br>
because in a proposal to show man_made=tower on the standard mapnik rendering, the result of this would be that all those communication towers would show up on the map incorrectly.<br>
This might also help:<br>
<br>
<a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Telecommunications_tower" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Telecommunications_tower</a> <<a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Telecommunications_tower" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Telecommunications_tower</a>><br>
<br>
regards,<br>
<br>
Marc.<br>
<br>
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------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 4<br>
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 13:27:40 -0700<br>
From: Suzan Reed <<a href="mailto:suzan@suzanreed.com">suzan@suzanreed.com</a>><br>
To: François Lacombe <<a href="mailto:fl.infosreseaux@gmail.com">fl.infosreseaux@gmail.com</a>><br>
Cc: "<a href="mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org">talk@openstreetmap.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org">talk@openstreetmap.org</a>>, Dave B<br>
<<a href="mailto:k7prz@isp.com">k7prz@isp.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Antennas and radio networks supports mapping<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:82D46E38-172B-47B0-B620-8EA829B29834@suzanreed.com">82D46E38-172B-47B0-B620-8EA829B29834@suzanreed.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8<br>
<br>
May I suggest contacting the American Radio Relay League, ARRL? With all the technically knowledgable people in the organization, and their interest in humanitarian readiness (ARES) they are sure to have information useful to map antennas.<br>
<br>
"The American Radio Relay League is the largest membership association of amateur radio enthusiasts in the USA. ARRL is a non-profit organization, and was founded in 6th April 1914." Members operate world wide and track their contacts using a number of different kinds of antenna, and each has a specific “tag”.<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.aarl.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">www.aarl.org</a><br>
<br>
A place to start: Dave Becker <a href="mailto:K7PR@isp.com">K7PR@isp.com</a>. If he doesn’t have the information himself, he can recommend someone to talk with.<br>
<br>
Hope this is of some help.<br>
Suzan Reed<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> I map quite few radio sites in connection with my work. Usually it is just mast/tower locations using the 'man_made=tower + tower:type=communication' tags with name/operator information. There are quite few things for these towers that could be improved. For example the difference between a tower and a mast - a mast in the UK is normally considered to have guy wires to hold it up. where as a tower supports itself. May masts are big enough to justify the guy wires being mapped with their ground anchor points. I am not aware of anything suitable to do that.<br>
><br>
> Ok to say definitions and keys are a bit messy. It's only about supports which can be refined independently.<br>
><br>
><br>
> There is also their feed line systems. I have used power=line to map some of these, as in this example in Burma:<br>
><br>
> <a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/16.86624/96.16177" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/16.86624/96.16177</a><br>
><br>
> It is not ideal, but the closest I could think of. Medium-wave broadcasts sites typically have very long feeder systems that can be mapped, as in the example.<br>
><br>
> This is interesting<br>
> I didn't see the use of power=line like that but it can be adjusted.<br>
> Wouldn't you add frequency=* and usage=radio on such lines ? It may allow consumers to distinguish them from standard electricity transmission lines.<br>
><br>
> RF can be used at high power rates : The CERN currently use them at hundred of MW to power up its accelerator.<br>
><br>
><br>
> As for the antennas mounted on a mast/tower, you then may need to consider the frequencies and operators that use the antennas. In some cases there will be multiple frequencies and operators. Physically, you would need the antenna height above ground level, direction, possibly which leg it is on and so on.<br>
><br>
> Antennas have many characteristics but only a few are relevant in OSM.<br>
> It may be better to give a manufacturer name and model reference to get such details directly from other databases.<br>
><br>
> Azimuth (if applicable), position and model information are the only data required there, aren't you ?<br>
> If the antenna works on several frequencies (based upon it's model number and manufacturer capabilities), the usage of those frequencies can depend on the "radio stations" relations the antenna is member of.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Lots to think about.<br>
> Indeed, can't wait to go forward about this topic<br>
><br>
><br>
> Regards<br>
><br>
> François<br>
><br>
> --<br>
> François Lacombe<br>
><br>
> fl dot infosreseaux At gmail dot com<br>
> <a href="http://www.infos-reseaux.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">www.infos-reseaux.com</a><br>
> @InfosReseaux<br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> talk mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org">talk@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
> <a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk</a><br>
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</blockquote></div><br></div>