<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">>John, Ulule does not charge 40%, the fees reasonably amount to 7 or 8%, that's a notable difference. <br><br>If I donate $100 to a charity the net cost to me is $60 and $100 is more or less available at the end. If I donate $60 to the crowdsourcing then $55 arrives at the end. So if we can get creative with a charity the money goes further. Different western countries have different rules but basically if it can be channeled through a charity more cash ends up on the ground.<br><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">West Africa, WHO are vacinating against polio is either there or not far away, they need maps where do people live. MSF have HOT projects around that area. Have a dig in HOT and you'll see sponsored projects around. All the HOT projects suffer from having not that many people on the ground for street names etc. The charities have purchased image data before but also DG and Mapbox have been very helpful to them. <font size="2"><span style="font-weight:normal">If you're serious about wanting to improve the state of the map in</span></font><font size="2"><span style="font-weight:normal"> Bénin then working with a charity might help both sides.</span></font><br><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">I note there is HOT mapping in Togo which is close by at the moment "Bâtiments, routes, chemins, zones résidentielles" which I assume is the sort of thing you're after. Have a chat to the organizers of that project and see which charities are involved if any. There are four projects in<font size="2"><span style="font-weight:normal"> Bénin at the moment.<br><br></span></font></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><font size="2"><span style="font-weight:normal">Currently for</span></font><font size="2"><span style="font-weight:normal"> Cotonou there is some Mapbox imagery not the greatest but I think you could squeeze a few more highways etc out of it.<br><br></span></font></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><font size="2"><span style="font-weight:normal">The HOT mailing list is probably the place to start and to be honest I thunk that is where the discussion should be taking place, but currently they're distracted by a couple of earthquakes. I think the most effective mapping comes out of a mixture of local knowledge and armchair mapping where the map is blank. Some of the charities are very well organised MSF for example have developed expertise in the optimum size of HOT project and complexity. They also have tame validators and that seems to be key to getting a HOT project completed in a reasonable time frame. <a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Tasking_Manager/Validating_data">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Tasking_Manager/Validating_data</a> is worth reading through. </span></font><font size="2"><span style="font-weight:normal"><br><br></span></font></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><font size="2"><span style="font-weight:normal">The Treasury Board Canada might seem an unlikely source of assistance but they have been instrumental in creating a open data license that is acceptable to OSM and are working with at least one African country to use the same license. I think Jo has been importing a large number of schools complete with names in one African country, it took a considerable amount of time to get the license sorted out. I understand if you have enough mappers on the ground everything can get mapped but for quickness sometimes a few high quality imports that are carefully imported can have benefits.<br><br></span></font></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><font size="2"><span style="font-weight:normal">So if you can raise the cash fine but if you can get the imagery in other ways perhaps a few GPS units or a few smart phones for collecting POI data might be an acceptable way of spending the cash raised. If your crowd funding doesn't quite raise enough cash then sometimes there are other ways to get the imagery.<br><br></span></font></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><font size="2"><span style="font-weight:normal">Cheerio John<br></span></font></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><font size="2"><span style="font-weight:normal"><br><br></span></font></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 25 April 2016 at 18:26, nicolas chavent <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:nicolas.chavent@gmail.com" target="_blank">nicolas.chavent@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div>Hi there, <br><br></div>Wow! None of the folks from the Association OSM Bénin nor those from the collective ProjetEOF who worked with the Benin mappers on this crowdfunding for imagery on 275km2 of Cotonou would have expected that email traffic. <br></div><br>Great to see this talk on the talk list! <br>Great also to read that this talk may develop into future new creative ways for Digital Globe and Map Box Satellite to assist OSM in Benin (many places outside of Cotonou which is likely to be handled through this crowdfunding) and in Western Africa (many places also) not to mention other places of this earth. I am not sure Christoph, if Kevin and Mikel will meet your criteria of 100% opendata imagery, surely this would be creative and awesome. <br><br>A couple of points from my side, prior the mappers from Benin will talk and share their perspectives on this topic and the reasons that lead them to crowdfund for Cotonou and to bring this project to its end. <br><br></div>At reading this thread in my late evening, comes first the surprise, that Simon puts up nicely, I am re-using his very words: <br><div style="margin-left:40px"><br><i><span class="">I'm slightly taken back by the number of people wanting to jump in and<br>
make decisions for a local community on a topic that has little bearing<br>
outside of their region. Surely is must be their prerogative to decide<br>
how best to get imagery for their area, if at all (I do suspect that<br>
they will welcome alternative offers, but that is obviously up to them).<br>
<br></span><span class="">
Further I don't quite follow Christoph's argument. There is very very<br>
little imagery used in OSM that is available on open (data) terms. As<br>
long as the results of tracing etc are essentially unencumbered nobody<br>
seems to have had issues with using non-free sources starting off with<br>
yahoo in 2007 and yes we've paid with money and in other ways for<br>
imagery in many places.</span></i><br>
<span><font color="#888888"><br>
</font></span></div>Frederik, field work is highly valued and practised in Benin and Western Africa as reflected in mappers stats, lists, wiki, social media (Twitter and Facebook) of mappers and local groups. The Benin guys as emailed have been actively mapping via field survey and remote mapping in Benin and Western Africa over the past 3 years. They have been active also in Cotonou through this time, with their own means, voluntarily in a poor country. They figured out that this situation had to change in Cotonou and got organized. One thing, you can be positive about, is that access to high res imagery over Cotonou will not kill their appetite for field work. <br> <br></div><div>Christoph you are right. Yes, it would have been better to acquire an imagery that could be fully distributed in opendata and not for tracing in OSM only the way this work for Bing, MapBox, specific humanitarian contexts (some Charter activations, the Imagery To The Crowd/ Map Give program of the US State Department) but this was out of reach. Shall the Benin folks have to keep surveying voluntarily the economic capital of their country instead of making the current compromise which has many precedents in OSM? Although the imagery is not fully served and distributed in opendata, through the generating of OSM data over Cotonou, it will mark a breakthrough for the local opendata movement by making the OSM base map of the city available to all. Like in many other places, this eventually will foster over time via a critical mass approach, the opening of geographical information. This is in that sense that opendata is meant in the email, blog post and project description in Ulule. Last, I agree with your idea (seeking full opendata imagery) but think that in making it happening one shall differentiate territories and contexts and that Cotonou, Benin is not ideal.<br><br></div><div>John, Ulule does not charge 40%, the fees reasonably amount to 7 or 8%, that's a notable difference.<br><br></div><div>John, Kevin and Mikel. Without commenting any further Simon first paragraph. Technically, what you are proposing (<i>using the crowdfunding money for other purposes</i>) may not even be possible or at least is not a good practise (not to say more). This may result into back clashes and distrust with the over 56 people who funded this project (<i>the purchase of high resolution imagery over Cotonou for OSM Benin</i>) or a bad record with Ulule. This can be negative for OSM Benin folks in the future shall they decide to crowdfund again for a similar or a different need. <br></div><div><br></div><div>Kevin and Mikel, the @OSMBenin twitter account indicates that <br>- your offers to assist OSM Bénin on Cotonou with imagery on the behalf of Digital Globe and Mapbox have been well heard. <br>- the imagery need over that part of Cotonou will be addressed via this crowdfunding. <br></div><div>- OSM Benin is keen on submitting other Areas Of Interest (AOIs) in Benin and in Western African in coordination with other Western African local OSM groups, they indicate that they are working on a uMap with priority AOIs. <br></div><div>This could be a creative and positive development of this crowdfunding. <br></div><div><br></div><div>Last, John which charities have you in minds to come to Benin and do the field work Kevin alluded to for the amount OSM Benin proposed to raise E 2,2k and how do you see this relating to the work of those mappers from Benin ? <br><br></div><div>Best,<br></div><div>Nicolas<br></div><div><div><div> <br></div></div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div class="h5"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 10:47 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dieterdreist@gmail.com" target="_blank">dieterdreist@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
<br>
sent from a phone<br>
<span><br>
> Il giorno 25 apr 2016, alle ore 20:41, Christoph Hormann <<a href="mailto:chris_hormann@gmx.de" target="_blank">chris_hormann@gmx.de</a>> ha scritto:<br>
><br>
> what is most readily available and most convenient for them and there<br>
> is little incentive in providing alternatives just because they are<br>
> open if they don't provide significant advantages for practical use.<br>
<br>
<br>
</span>regarding Bing aerial imagery, other imagery will likely be better referenced, at least this is my experience around here, even if the resolution of Bing might be higher.<br>
<br>
cheers,<br>
Martin<br>
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