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    We're *all* volunteers giving our valuable time to OSM. It could be
    more efficiently spent if fixable variations such as this didn't
    occur. When I add data I'm, quite rightly, expected to do it to a
    certain standard of quality.<br>
    <br>
    DaveF<br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 24/04/2017 13:46, Nick Whitelegg
      wrote:<br>
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          <p>Could one of the reasons be that open source developers are
            doing this in their own time and have a million other
            responsibilities in their lives?</p>
          <p><br>
            TBH I think it's a case of live with it and read the
            documentation. There are more important things to worry
            about.
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          <p>Nick<br>
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        <div id="x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt"
            color="#000000" face="Calibri, sans-serif"><b>From:</b> Dave
            F <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:davefoxfac63@btinternet.com"><davefoxfac63@btinternet.com></a><br>
            <b>Sent:</b> 24 April 2017 11:31:24<br>
            <b>To:</b> OSM Talk<br>
            <b>Subject:</b> Re: [OSM-talk] Coordinates in OSM. Really
            annoying</font>
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          <div class="PlainText">Hi<br>
            <br>
            I'm unsure why go on about anyone being "thrown out".<br>
            <br>
            I'm unsure why doing it inconsistently in the past in
            'legacy' code is <br>
            any reason for not trying to sort it out for the future.<br>
            <br>
            Programmers can reformat to any standard* of their desire
            /within/ their <br>
            own program. It can't be hard to do; it is, after all, pure
            ASCII text.<br>
            What's irritating is the responsibility oft the syntax has
            been passed <br>
            on to the end user.<br>
            <br>
            What are the reasons the authors of the programs listed
            can't coordinate <br>
            with each other to simplify it for users within OSM
            community?<br>
            <br>
            * Are they really adhering to a 'standard' or just doing it
            one way <br>
            because a competitor did it another?<br>
            <br>
            DaveF<br>
            <br>
            On 23/04/2017 08:29, Roland Olbricht wrote:<br>
            > Hi,<br>
            ><br>
            >> Is there /really/ any need for *six* coordinate
            formats? It's hard<br>
            >> enough to learn a new process without basics like
            this tripping you up.<br>
            ><br>
            > There is nobody who is trusted enough to set an
            universal standard:<br>
            > <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://xkcd.com/927/">https://xkcd.com/927/</a><br>
            ><br>
            > Basically, there is an ISO standard<br>
            > <a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_6709">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_6709</a><br>
            > to have latitude before longitude. Leaflet complies,
            OpenLayers does not.<br>
            ><br>
            > This is for historical reasons. When multiple
            projections were <br>
            > commonplace as exchange formats, then they often used x
            and y as names <br>
            > for the two numbers, and x often decoded to something
            loosely or <br>
            > tightly related to longitude.<br>
            ><br>
            > However, OpenLayers is too useful to be thrown out just
            for having the <br>
            > wrong coordinate order. The same applies to a lot of
            other tools with <br>
            > legacy coordinate order.<br>
            ><br>
            > To have a gentle pressure towards the ISO standard, the
            advertised <br>
            > interface is latitude-longitude. There are some
            precautions for inert <br>
            > legacy tools:<br>
            > <a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="http://dev.overpass-api.de/blog/bounding_boxes.html#lonlat_bbox">http://dev.overpass-api.de/blog/bounding_boxes.html#lonlat_bbox</a><br>
            ><br>
            > As Lester has pointed out, XML requires explicit
            parameter names. By <br>
            > the way, I am not aware of anybody actively using the
            XML syntax. You <br>
            > can safely ignore that.<br>
            ><br>
            > For the delimiter question: There are programming
            languages with a <br>
            > combined market share of almost 90% that agree to have
            to semanticy in <br>
            > whitespace. The sole widespread-used exception is
            Python. Once again: <br>
            > Are you seriously asking the OSM community for a
            crusade to throw out <br>
            > Python for minor syntactic infrigement?<br>
            ><br>
            > Beside Python, the delimiters are always commas and
            semi-colons. As <br>
            > commas tend to be used to delimit parameters, they are
            for the numbers <br>
            > of the bounding box the delimiters of choice.<br>
            ><br>
            > Cheers,<br>
            ><br>
            > Roland<br>
            ><br>
            <br>
            <br>
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